The Bloody Piece of Apron Redux

[Victor]

There were several methods of bringing about an abortion. There was always a local woman, who was usually a midwife as well that could bring on a miscarriage. I think it's safe to say, that amongst prostitutes, her services were used far more as an abortionist than as an actual midwife. I'd be very surprised if she wasn't fully booked most of the time with the amount of prostitutes there were in the area.

Hi Jane et al,

Have you seen "Vera Drake"? That covers what you are discussing, especially the high risks associated with it.

KR,
Vic.

[mariab]

Hi Archaic. Interesting. I'd have to check about “smooth muscle“.
On my own body, the stronger muscle happens to be the quad. (Much stronger than a man's, probably from keeping pulling ollies in the halfpipe to get higher, and from wakeboarding jumps. Which I both miss SORELY right now.) :-(

[Archaic]

Hi Maria.

I double-checked because i was just going from memory, and you're right about the whole uterus itself not being a muscle, but it's lined with incredibly strong muscle of the type called 'smooth muscle'.

This article says that the myometrial layer of the uterus is considered to be the strongest muscle in the human body by weight.

Of course the uterus is very small (size of a small pear), nowhere as near as big as, say, a man's quadricep, but if their relative strengths are compared it looks like the uterine muscle is stronger.

Take that, He-Men!!

Best regards,
Archaic

[mariab]

I recall reading that the Uterus is the strongest muscle in the human body.

The strongest, most often used muscles in the human body are the biceps and the quad(riceps).
The uterus is not a muscle. You're referring to the Pubococcygeus muscles (or Kegel muscles), which can be pretty strong (and they'd better be ;-)), but still not as strong as if we carried weights and walked/jumped/run stairs with them all day.
The most vital muscle in the body is the heart. If it's off, we die. If it's broken, well, maybe it can be fixed after a while. ;-)
By the by, the bestest wishes for a quickest recovery with your own quad, Archaic, and to some
horseriding soon.

[Archaic]

Oh, Errata, that must have been so awful! And traumatizing for anybody to witness, let alone a teenage girl.

I was trying to remember the proper name for a womb-supporting device like the antique one I described, and I think it's "pessary"- do you know if that's right? (Not sure if I spelled it properly.)

I recall reading that the Uterus is the strongest muscle in the human body.

Best regards,
Archaic

[Errata]

Such a sponge most probably would have been laying around (like their intestines) after the killer removed their organs.

Actually he never cut below the cervix when he took the uterus, so the sponge would have stayed right where she left it.

My mom had a prolapsed uterus. And then it fell out. That was not a good day for me. I mean, it wasn't a good day for her, but she at least knew such a thing was possible, where I at 17 did not know that.

[mariab]

OK, I'm afraid I really have to tell that story. Well, in German “Servietten“ means “paper napkins“, but in Greek it means, well, “sanitary pads“. My friend Natalia, Greek but born and raised in Berlin, went to a party store in Greece and kept asking for “Servietten“ for a party she was planning. The people at the store kept telling her they don't carry sanitary products, only party gear. But she stayed there for quite a while, insisting she needed some “Servietten“ in really cool colors, to decorate the table for a really nice party she was planning.

[protohistorian]

ROFLMAO! DAve

[Archaic]

1890's Abdominal & Uterine Supporter

Hello everyone.


Here's an illustration of an "Abdominal and Uterine Supporter" from the 1890's.

It looks pretty funny at first, but when you think about it, that's what having 8 or 10 kids did to a woman.
And think of the women with a prolapsed uterus who actually needed something like this but couldn't afford it.

The second illustration is a late 1890's disposable sanitary napkin. ("Serviette" is French for "napkin".)
Note that they are 4 cents each, the same price as a night's lodging in Whitechapel.

Best regard,
Archaic

[mariab]

Such a sponge most probably would have been laying around (like their intestines) after the killer removed their organs.

[Errata]

A question to the experienced specialists among you: Would an inserted sponge identified with the C5 bodies be listed in the inventory by the doctors?

Unless it had a string like a tampon (and many did not), i don't think they would have known it was there. Nothing has ever led me to the conclusion that any of these women had a vaginal examination. "Evidence of connexion" was fluids on the exterior of the genitalia and the inner thighs.

They wouldn't look for one the way they would check today, because these women couldn't afford sponges, or any such barrier. They wouldn't expect to find one any more than they would expect to find a solid gold diaphragm. So if for some vanishingly small reason any of these women actually got their hands on one, it went unnoticed by the coroner. And it would have been listed by the doctors, if not necessarily revealed at inquest.

[mariab]

A question to the experienced specialists among you: Would an inserted sponge identified with the C5 bodies be listed in the inventory by the doctors?

If you wish to hear about progressive health politics:
- France legalized contraception in 1967, abortion in 1975. (Thanks to the insistence by Simone Veil, the minister of health under Giscard d'Estaing). Not that either abortion or contraception were penalized in France in any sense whatsoever before, but legalization made them available to everyone, with no charges. In France the pill and “the pill afterwards“ are free of charge to purchase in any pharmacy for girls under 18 and for students. The same in Germany for only “the pill afterwards“ (no charges), when prescribed by a gynecologist.
- Greece (where I grew up) followed up France's progressive health politics a couple years later.
- For Catholic Italy (and possibly, Spain), it took forever to legalize either contraception or abortion, and the Pope still denies them.

[Dark Ali]

Back in the LVP there were loads of age-old herbal remedies that were used by 'midwives', but a lot of them were poisonous so not much fun for the poor cow that had to take them. There were also quite a few compounds sold 'under the counter' to people at chemist shops which were marketed brands, but which didn't advertise their availability too widely.

Pennyroyal and pennyroyal oil were available, but like Janie said very dangerous. It is concerning that just by doing a quick Google of the history, you bring up sites that tell women how to use it as an abortive in this day and age! One woman asked the Ask Yahoo page to get advice on pennyroyal abortion because she couldn't afford a trip to the clinic!

[Jane Coram]

Hi,

Just a quick one as I'm still up to my eyes in it. Curious has already mentioned some of these, but just a bit more info -

The same practices were still being used right up into the 1950s and even 60s, when contraception became more generally available. They were certainly all being used back in the LVP.

There were several methods of bringing about an abortion. There was always a local woman, who was usually a midwife as well that could bring on a miscarriage. I think it's safe to say, that amongst prostitutes, her services were used far more as an abortionist than as an actual midwife. I'd be very surprised if she wasn't fully booked most of the time with the amount of prostitutes there were in the area.

They all had their favoured methods, but one was using a knitting needle which was very effective, but which often caused severe bleeding, blood poisoning and even death. I know a couple of women who had abortions this way back in the early 60s and they were okay, but it was very hit and miss. There were all sorts of methods that were thought to work, but which have no real scientific basis. I've known women who have tried almost all of them.

One was to drink boiled gin and sit in baths full of near scalding water. That was a very popular method, and I've heard women say it worked, but I have to wonder if it was just coincedence. I know one instance when it certainly didn't work (not me I hasten to add! Lol). I've known other women throw themselves down the stairs to try and lose the baby, and one enterprising soul got her bloke to kick her hard in the lower abdomen. That didn't work either. The only thing she got rid of was the boyfriend.

Back in the LVP there were loads of age-old herbal remedies that were used by 'midwives', but a lot of them were poisonous so not much fun for the poor cow that had to take them. There were also quite a few compounds sold 'under the counter' to people at chemist shops which were marketed brands, but which didn't advertise their availability too widely.

Gotta go, I'm about six month's behind myself today!

Lots of great posts there!

Hugs

Janie


xxxxxx

[curious4]

contraception

The last was to show that contraception was mainly the domaine of men -
"Something for the weekend, sir?", so that women had to find their own solutions, and there were many well-kept secrets for formulas to bring on a miscarriage, apart from downing gin in a hot bath and jumping off ladders, which someone like Catherine Eddowes would be aquainted with. There doesn´t seem to be any evidence of a sponge in her case, unless the doctors missed it or Jack took it away with him. Perhaps the absence of a sponge showed that she was not planning to prostitute herself that night, but rather to try for the reward for JTR