The Bloody Piece of Apron Redux

[Archaic]

Victorian London Photographs by John Thomson

Most of you have probably seen this photo by the famous Scottish photographer John Thomson, but I thought I'd post it for those of you who are unfamiliar with Victorian-Era clothing as worn by the poorer inhabitants of London.

The first photo is c.1876-1877 and shows a woman in a typical long white apron. You can see that it's a utilitarian piece meant to protect her skirts rather than a fashion item. The apron wraps around her sides as well as her front. This photo shows people of all ages, so gives us a good idea of what clothing was like in the Victoria Era.

The second photograph depicts a trio of 'Covent Garden Flower-Sellers' with their baskets of flowers. It was taken in 1877, but styles among the poor would have changed very little by 1888.

There is such pathos in this photograph... If you zoom in you can see the pinched faces more clearly. Note the shabby, well-worn clothing, particularly the pitifully thin shawls of the women, which might have been their only protection against the cold. The shawl of the woman in the center is criss-crossed over her chest, while the shawl of the woman at left is pinned tightly at the neck to keep the cold out.

The woman in the center is wearing a white apron. The woman on the left appears to be wearing a smaller white apron that is twisted up in front, close to her bouquets. The light-colored skirt she is wearing may be a full apron or it may be an actual skirt, though it's a bit short to be a Victorian-era skirt. She looks to be taller than the others, so perhaps it's a second-hand skirt that's a bit short for her. However, if you zoom in and look under its hem you can see that she is also wearing another darker skirt that goes nearly to the ground, which is what one would expect for a woman in that era. (Of course poor people couldn't be too fussy about hem-lengths, especially when most of their clothes were 2nd-hand.) The woman on the right is wearing either a full apron or a skirt of a different, somewhat shinier fabric with what appears to be a pattern. (My guess is that it's a glazed calico or something similar.)

The poor young boy looks rather grubby, doesn't he? His sadly too-big outfit reminds me of Charlie Chaplin's "Little Tramp".

Best Regards,
Archaic

PS: The Victoria & Albert Museum have some of Thomson's wonderful photos in their collection. Here's a link: http://www.vam.ac.uk/vastatic/micros...rapherid=ph054

[mariab]

Hi Jane,
I completely understand and agree. Yes, it'll be interesting to compare the foreign newspapers with the UK ones and see what different elements were reported.
By the by, Lynn Cates recently located a very interesting report in a Russian English speaking newspaper which attempts to link the Whitechapel murders to a Russian anarchist whom the Okhrana had an agenda against. Lynn is researching this further. It's posted in the Kaufmann thread.
Apologies for mentioning this detail here.

[Jane Coram]

Hi Maria,

No, your'e right of course, we can't trust a single newspaper report, but if we make a note of it, then it's possible that at some time in the future other information will come to light that confirms or contradicts it and so it's still valuable. It's just one to put on the back boiler.

Having said that, some of the overseas newspapers were a damn sight more accurate than the British ones and provide some really excellent reports on life in the area at the time as seen by the foreign press. As Dave said, it depends who was relaying the information!

Just seen your last post. The contents of the foreign newspapers in relation to British ones, varied greatly, some seemed to just parrot what the British papers said, and some had an entirely original report on whatever it was. It seemed to have taken a long while for some of the reports to permeate out to far flung places. They were still reporting Kate's murder on November 17th and presenting it as fresh news!

I'm trawling through now and when I get to Kate's reports, I'll compare some of the foreign reports with the UK ones and see what sort of difference there was in reporting styles. If I find anything interesting in connection with Kate's apron, I'll post it up here.

Much love

Janie

xxxx

[mariab]

By the way, is there a possibility to research who the London wire affiliate was for a random foreign newspaper? (Possibly in newspaperarchive.com, to which I want to subscribe in a couple weeks?) I've looked up the Te Aroha News, and it used to come out also as The Upper Thames Advocate. I guess another quick way to research the London wire affiliate would be to compare the reports in the foreign newspaper in question with the London ones. (I bet that Jane can do that easily, since she has all 1887 newspapers available at home, for the book she's preparing. I wonder if her quoting the Te Aroha News means that it said something different/additional than the London newspapers?)

[protohistorian]

Well Maria, it depends on who the London wire affiliate was. There is a paper from Kansas that calls all east enders "animals". They damn sure got the idea from somewhere. Dave

[mariab]

Hi Jane,
is such a report from a New Zealand paper to be trusted at all, though?

[Jane Coram]

Hi,

I'm just trawling through the press reports and came on this in the Te Aroha News 17th November 1888.

It states that Kate was still wearing the upper portion of her apron, so that would seem to suggest that the bottom half of the apron was cut across, rather than it being cut downwards and the left or right half being taken.

Just thought I'd post that while I thought of it.

Hugs

Janie

xxxxx

[curious4]

Chalk

Hello Carol.

Nice to hear from you - we must get in touch - if you want to - and exchange Kentish memories! I will send you my e-mail address.

Yes I remember picking up chalk stones as well. Donīt really know about London, but I have a habit of picking up stones when on holiday (not just in weight lol) and on a visit to London a few years ago picked up a piece of flint and that usually goes with chalk, so maybe.

Best wishes,

C4

[Carol]

Hi Curious4!,
I've just read the last week's posts on this thread and so I'm very behind with posting. I'm as surprised as you to find I'm talking to someone from Kent living in Sweden - and my age group as well!
You mentioned in an earlier thread about the chalk that
was used. I've been thinking about this as well and I've remembered that when I was a young girl we never bothered to buy chalk as it was lying about here and there and could even be dug up easily in the garden. Living in the very chalky soil area of Kent had its advantages. We always used 'found' chalk for hopscotch and 'discreet' graffiti! Do you know if the Whitechapel area has chalky soil?
Love
Carol

[curious4]

writing

Hello Steve,

I have enjoyed trying to puzzle this out, even if I am, I suspect, way off the mark! I suppose you have tried the old Sherlock Holmes magnifying glass? For some reason it worked better than enlarging the image.

I would love to see what the real experts finally make of it - you will post it, wonīt you - please!

All good wishes,

C4

P.S. Yes I did see it was feet in the end (to my shame) - missed the little tick by the 30 first time round!

[Chava]

What sort of stupid word is 'redux'?

Latin

[Stephen Thomas]

What sort of stupid word is 'redux'?

[sgh]

Hello Steve and all,

Second try - most probably wrong again but fun!

2 doors from Wentworth Street and no 3 in the report(s) re bloods

about 30 feet/(degrees?) away rt hand side doorway about 20 feet/(degrees) door frame(?)

found inside entrance to stairwell(?) front bldg from 10g to 11g (or 108 to 119?)

Love puzzles!

Best wishes
C4

Hi C4,
I can see you're trying your hardest with this word puzzle!
I should have mentioned before that where it says for example 30' 0
it's the surveyor's way of abbreviating 30 feet 0 inches.
So no need to find the 'degrees' key on your keyboard.

Thank you and Best Wishes
Steve

[curious4]

writing

Hello Steve and all,

Second try - most probably wrong again but fun!

2 doors from Wentworth Street and no 3 in the report(s) re bloods

about 30 feet/(degrees?) away rt hand side doorway about 20 feet/(degrees) door frame(?)

found inside entrance to stairwell(?) front bldg from 10g to 11g (or 108 to 119?)

Love puzzles!

Best wishes
C4

[sgh]

Hello sgh,

Having made out what I think is the graffiti on the lower right hand side(as I previously wrote), this is what I make of the rest:

2 doors from Wentworth Street and (?) the 3 on the right bloods

about 30.0 on the rt hand side(?) doorway about 20.0 and found inside entrance to stairwell (?) from frieze(?) bldg fronting(?) 109 to 11G.

I will keep looking at it and try to make out more if I can. Fascinating! Not sure itīs quite right yet tho! Donīt have little degrees sign so put dot.

Best wishes

C4:

Hi C4,
Many thanks for your input and I would be pleased to hear of any further findings that you manage to decipher. You're right! It is fascinating.

One thing's for sure though - we will never be 100% certain where the bloody apron was found - inside or outside the stairwell due to many conflicting reports at the time.

Best
Steve