Eddowes V-shape wounds are scissors I think

[Fisherman]

Yes, he was the boyfriend of Kate's cousin, Sarah Eddowes. It's a fairly tenuous connection.

Incidentally, there was also a Croot(e) living at the same address in Mary Ann Street as Ma Lechmere in 1871 (from memory). It's a fairly unusual name, so there may be a connection there, too, but probably not.

Alfred Croote? I seem to remember an Alfred Croote.

[Fisherman]

Each to his own, Batman. To me, it´s a very good explanation. I don´t predispose that two nicked eyelids must mean that two flaps in the cheek flesh must have been carried out one after the other. I do, however, believe that this was always a tempting suggestion. It is a lot more intriguing that way - but sometimes intriguing matters must give way for practical ones...

[MrBarnett]

Alfred Croote? I seem to remember an Alfred Croote.

Yes, that was the man in MA Street, I believe.

The spelling of the family name is sometimes with, sometimes without the terminal 'e'. It's a while ago now, but I did look for a connection between Alfred and Jesse, with no success as far as I can remember.

[Fisherman]

Yes, that was the man in MA Street, I believe.

The spelling of the family name is sometimes with, sometimes without the terminal 'e'. It's a while ago now, but I did look for a connection between Alfred and Jesse, with no success as far as I can remember.

Okay, thanks for that. Sounds decidedly Dickensian, Alfred Croote...

[Abby Normal]

Okay, thanks for that. Sounds decidedly Dickensian, Alfred Croote...

lol I wasthinking the exact same thing.

[packers stem]

https://www.casebook.org/images/rip73-photo1.jpg

So basically the Vs come from the tip of the knife cutting through the nose? They are incidental.

But they are on both sides of her face, under each eye.

What I've learnt from ripperology over the years is that 'coincidence' is typically the most highly used response to anything that seems out of the ordinary .
For what it's worth , I'm convinced it was deliberate ...... and I wouldn't worry too much about the lighting
Lighting was essential for some of the other mutilations
What we should be focused on is where the lighting came from

[Batman]

What I've learnt from ripperology over the years is that 'coincidence' is typically the most highly used response to anything that seems out of the ordinary .
For what it's worth , I'm convinced it was deliberate ...... and I wouldn't worry too much about the lighting
Lighting was essential for some of the other mutilations
What we should be focused on is where the lighting came from

I totally didn't see that one coming but you are right, they are being explained as yet again coincidental. I think it has a shot of being right though. I am 50/50 on it but I think if such a thing were reproducible then pathology would see these V type (or U type) cuts in more homicide cases involving knife slashes. So why is it that pathologists the world over haven't come forward to say, oh yeah, here are a bunch of examples of this sort of incidental wounding through slashes to the face. We are talking about JtR, arguably the world's most read serial killer, and Eddowes V-shapes, which are part and parcel of talking about how Eddowes died. It was the start of JtR attacking their faces. It is this lack of corroboration with the community of pathologists that makes me think it isn't what is happening here. This is why scissors could have explanatory power. Quite a few unsavory individuals were caught with scissors. It also points at tailors and not away from them but anyone can carry scissors. It's a pity their clothes were not photographed or the apron piece. Well, maybe they were, but are long lost now, stolen or destroyed.

[Michael W Richards]

Ive read Sams dissertation on the matter and found it to be principally sound, but the fact that he sought to mutilate her face by cutting her nose is precedent for presupposing other marks were also made intentionally. Its established that he deliberately wanted to mark her face, now, to what extent?

There are cases where we have seen victims faces marked and in some of those cases the marks were intentional and intended to label the victim. I read here somewhere that snitches had their faces cut to let others know what happens to them. It would seem, if the story that Kate was going to go to the authorities with a name is real, then she might be considered a "snitch" by some.

[Trevor Marriott]

I totally didn't see that one coming but you are right, they are being explained as yet again coincidental. I think it has a shot of being right though. I am 50/50 on it but I think if such a thing were reproducible then pathology would see these V type (or U type) cuts in more homicide cases involving knife slashes. So why is it that pathologists the world over haven't come forward to say, oh yeah, here are a bunch of examples of this sort of incidental wounding through slashes to the face. We are talking about JtR, arguably the world's most read serial killer, and Eddowes V-shapes, which are part and parcel of talking about how Eddowes died. It was the start of JtR attacking their faces. It is this lack of corroboration with the community of pathologists that makes me think it isn't what is happening here. This is why scissors could have explanatory power. Quite a few unsavory individuals were caught with scissors. It also points at tailors and not away from them but anyone can carry scissors. It's a pity their clothes were not photographed or the apron piece. Well, maybe they were, but are long lost now, stolen or destroyed.

If you are going to cut someones throat, and rip their abdomens open with a long bladed knife, are you going to fanny about with a pair of scissors. lets get real here folks !

https://www.trevormarriott.o.uk

[Sam Flynn]

If you are going to cut someones throat, and rip their abdomens open with a long bladed knife, are you going to fanny about with a pair of scissors. lets get real here folks

Quite.

[Batman]

Several suspects with knives also had scissors on them. In news reports. Also a picquerist with some was found.

The claims made on this thread are actually falsifiable. All you would have to do is the demonstration.

[Sam Flynn]

I don't think we need to demonstrate that, having inflicted so many wounds with a knife, the killer was highly unlikely to, quote, "fanny about" with a pair of scissors just to inflict a couple more. Especially when the two wounds in question could quite easily have been inflicted with the same implement as all the others.

[Batman]

You skipped over my point about suspects and don't want to test scientifically what can actually be tested. Very little in this case can be. I'd jump at opportunity if I discovered that.

The next job I do I shall clip the ladys ears off - Dear Boss letter.


Maybe JtR read that and decided to clip with scissors and also stab with a knife.

I hope you enjoyed looking up Picquerism.

[Trevor Marriott]

You skipped over my point about suspects and don't want to test scientifically what can actually be tested. Very little in this case can be. I'd jump at opportunity if I discovered that.

The next job I do I shall clip the ladys ears off - Dear Boss letter.


Maybe JtR read that and decided to clip with scissors and also stab with a knife.

I hope you enjoyed looking up Picquerism.

I dont know what medication you are on but it needs changing

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Fisherman]

If you are going to cut someones throat, and rip their abdomens open with a long bladed knife, are you going to fanny about with a pair of scissors. lets get real here folks !

www.trevormarriott.o.uk

Well, scissors HAVE been used as a murder weapon by for example Peter Kürten - but as a stabbing implement and not in the way suggested by Batman. Additionally, pliers have also been used, but then as a means for torture (Lawrence Bittaker).
I still think that the suggestion about collateral nose cutting knife damage, as suggested by Wickerman, makes a lot more sense.