Eddowes V-shape wounds are scissors I think

[Sam Flynn]

I read here somewhere that snitches had their faces cut to let others know what happens to them.

Mary Kelly must have been an über-snitch, then

[Joshua Rogan]

I don't have my copy of "The Ultimate" to hand, but were there not two versions of the Schwartz account - the one he gave the private investigators or whatever they were and that given to the police? I thought there was some discrepancy between the two accounts as to who had shouted 'Lipski'? (Apologies if I've mis-remembered that).

Yes, the Star 1st Oct account of the story has "Pipeman" rushing at Schwartz with a knife and "shouting out some sort of warning" to the man attacking Stride. Whereas in Swanson's report he has "the man who threw the woman down called out apparently to the man on the opposite side of the road 'Lipski'... Schwartz cannot say whether the two men were together or known to each other"

Abberline says "I questioned Israel Schwartz very closely at the time he made the statement as to whom the man addressed when he called Lipski, but he was unable to say" and therefore, it seems, the police concluded that it was aimed by Liz' attacker at Schwartz himself.

[Abby Normal]

I don't have my copy of "The Ultimate" to hand, but were there not two versions of the Schwartz account - the one he gave the private investigators or whatever they were and that given to the police? I thought there was some discrepancy between the two accounts as to who had shouted 'Lipski'? (Apologies if I've mis-remembered that).

Hi Bridewell
there was a later dicrepency (or confusion) on who schwartz said the yell of Lipski was directed at -him or perhaps pipemen. There was no doubt that BS man yelled it though.

and Abberline pretty much cleared that up anyway.

[Cogidubnus]

There are cases where we have seen victims faces marked and in some of those cases the marks were intentional and intended to label the victim. I read here somewhere that snitches had their faces cut to let others know what happens to them. It would seem, if the story that Kate was going to go to the authorities with a name is real, then she might be considered a "snitch" by some.

I thought this was interesting...as I recall, snitches used to have their noses cut off (no more nosiness) and/or their tongues removed (no more grassing)...

[Sam Flynn]

There may have been some discrepancies, Mike, but Schwartz seems quite clear that the cry came from a man.

[Bridewell]

I know what you meant, Mike, but Schwartz seems quite clearly to have seen/heard BSM call out "Lipski!" to pipeman. Stride had already been thrown to the ground at this point, and it's unlikely that Schwartz would have mistaken a male voice calling out from a standing position with that of a woman on the floor.

I don't have my copy of "The Ultimate" to hand, but were there not two versions of the Schwartz account - the one he gave the private investigators or whatever they were and that given to the police? I thought there was some discrepancy between the two accounts as to who had shouted 'Lipski'? (Apologies if I've mis-remembered that).

[Bridewell]

re-Read my post Sam, that's what I said. I'm asking whether its possible though that Israel saw the scuffle, but that Liz squealed "Lipski" instead of BSM. Ive always wondered whether Israel actually did see something.... inside the gates, perhaps as he left the club via the side door,... and chose or was asked to modify a few elements of that story to take heat off the club as a possible source of the killer.

He had all day to get the story "right" after all.

Wouldn't the greater risk to the continued existence of the club come from a cover-up? Okay so (if there was indeed a cover-up) they got away with it, but they couldn't have known in advance that that would be the case. If they'd identified the killer and denounced him, surely that could only be to their credit (except to the ant-Semitic - but they're never going to be won over, no matter what you do).

[Abby Normal]

I know what you meant, Mike, but Schwartz seems quite clearly to have seen/heard BSM call out "Lipski!" to pipeman. Stride had already been thrown to the ground at this point, and it's unlikely that Schwartz would have mistaken a male voice calling out from a standing position with that of a woman on the floor.

of course he wouldn't Sam. MR is going with the conspiracy nonsense again.

and chose or was asked to modify a few elements of that story to take heat off the club as a possible source of the killer.

He had all day to get the story "right" after all.

[Sam Flynn]

re-Read my post Sam, that's what I said.

I know what you meant, Mike, but Schwartz seems quite clearly to have seen/heard BSM call out "Lipski!" to pipeman. Stride had already been thrown to the ground at this point, and it's unlikely that Schwartz would have mistaken a male voice calling out from a standing position with that of a woman on the floor.

[Michael W Richards]

Schwartz said that it was BSM who uttered the cry.

re-Read my post Sam, that's what I said. I'm asking whether its possible though that Israel saw the scuffle, but that Liz squealed "Lipski" instead of BSM. Ive always wondered whether Israel actually did see something.... inside the gates, perhaps as he left the club via the side door,... and chose or was asked to modify a few elements of that story to take heat off the club as a possible source of the killer.

He had all day to get the story "right" after all.

[Sam Flynn]

Is that the "Lipski" Israel provides us with? Only it was Liz squealing it, and not BSM?

Schwartz said that it was BSM who uttered the cry.

[Michael W Richards]

As to the other Stride-related details, many papers of 1st October (including the Morning Advertiser and The Times, among others) had said that Stride's murderer may have been interrupted, so "had not time to finish...". The same papers also said that, because of the bruises present on her body, she'd probably been thrown to the ground whilst still alive, before her throat was cut. Under those circumstances, it would be a safe guess that she would indeed have "squealed a bit" before the fatal wound was inflicted.

Is that the "Lipski" Israel provides us with? Only it was Liz squealing it, and not BSM? That would point toward her having knowledge of the reference and its usage, and the she was being attacked by someone Jewish....on or just outside a Immigrant Jewish mens club. All Israel has to do is change the source of that cry and the weight of suspicion goes from Jew to anti-Semite.

[Sam Flynn]

You missed out the all important full stop between off and had.

"first one squealed a bit couldn't finish straight off. had not time to get ears for police".

I don't see it makes much of a difference, as the sentence flows on from "first one squealed a bit couldn't finish straight off" - in fact, he doesn't really deal with the second murder, except inasmuch as he said it was part of what he dubbed a Double Event. He certainly doesn't say anything about the partial removal of Eddowes' ear; if he was going to mention ears at all, he'd surely have alluded to this to add credibility to what he'd written. Instead of which, he appears ignorant of the fact that anyone's ears had been damaged at all.

Anyway, the author missed the full stop (or dash, or semicolon) required between "squealed a bit" and "had not time", so the postcard's punctuation was slapdash to begin with.

[Jon Guy]

The failure to clip the ears was mentioned in connection with Stride: "first one squealed a bit couldn't finish straight off had not time to get ears for police". This is probably because, by the time the postcard was written/posted - 1st Oct - insufficient details had appeared in the press about either murder, so the hoaxer resorted to generalisations, intending to play it safe... or so he thought, because it had yet to be revealed that the second victim had had part of her ear cut off.

As to the other Stride-related details, many papers of 1st October (including the Morning Advertiser and The Times, among others) had said that Stride's murderer may have been interrupted, so "had not time to finish...". The same papers also said that, because of the bruises present on her body, she'd probably been thrown to the ground whilst still alive, before her throat was cut. Under those circumstances, it would be a safe guess that she would indeed have "squealed a bit" before the fatal wound was inflicted.

Gareth

You missed out the all important full stop between off and had.

"first one squealed a bit couldn't finish straight off. had not time to get ears for police".

[Batman]

Like I said, it's well known that blood goes thick, so there's every reason to suppose that the writer meant exactly that. No need to read any spooky inferences into the postcard.

So the ear clip remark is just a coincidence too then?