"I think I know him"

[Hunter]

...
Dr. Phillips testified that he could not have performed all the injuries in under 15 minutes.
Have another look at Eddowes' injuries and possible time frames.
14 minutes between Watkin's visits...

Hi Dave,

The key here is that Phillips was explaining how long it would have taken him, not necessarily the murderer. This is how he operated -- from a logical and practical point of view. Despite the credentials and experience, neither he, or Baxter (or any one of them for that matter) had experienced anything like this. By the time of Eddowes' murder and with more medicos involved, the concept of what may be taking place was changing.

One more observation about timing: A surgeon like Phillips operated methodically and with a purpose to not injure the patient. A postmortem mutilator didn't operate with such restrictions. I believe it was Sequeira who suggested the mutilations on Eddowes could be carried out in maybe as few as 3 minutes. Brown speculated 5 minutes minimum. And these were doctors mind you.

Now I'm not credited in any way, but I have field dressed game (even with the intent of saving certain organs) and I could see the mutilations on both Chapman and Eddowes being carried out in just a couple of minutes.

[Abby Normal]

Only a semi-serious question; how much noise does one make when being strangled? I would think the answer varies between almost none and quite a bit depending on how adept at strangling the strangler is.

ive always been flabbergasted that the ripper was doing this in public with no one ever seeing him or hearing anything (with possible exception of Schwartz/stride). I mean sometimes mear feet away! incredible.

[Sam Flynn]

I believe it was Sequeira who suggested the mutilations on Eddowes could be carried out in maybe as few as 3 minutes. Brown speculated 5 minutes minimum. And these were doctors mind you

In more modern times, the renowned British forensic pathologist and veteran of literally thousands of autopsies, Dr Iain West, said in respect of Eddowes that the whole thing could have been done in 4 to 5 minutes.

[Robert St Devil]

Only a semi-serious question; how much noise does one make when being strangled? I would think the answer varies between almost none and quite a bit depending on how adept at strangling the strangler is.

During the garroting scare of the 60s, professional garrotters had it down to a science, and could render their victim unconscious in a few seconds. So, I'm thinking the key phrase in your post is "how adept".

[Abby Normal]

In more modern times, the renowned British forensic pathologist and veteran of literally thousands of autopsies, Dr Iain West, said in respect of Eddowes that the whole thing could have been done in 4 to 5 minutes.

to me the ripper more than likely had some kind of medical and or anatomical experience to carry this stuff out so quickly without getting caught. at very least butchering skills.

I don't see how someone with zero experience in any of these areas could have done it (eddowes and chapman for example)in 5 minutes. no way.

[DJA]

Hi Dave,

The key here is that Phillips was explaining how long it would have taken him, not necessarily the murderer. This is how he operated -- from a logical and practical point of view. Despite the credentials and experience, neither he, or Baxter (or any one of them for that matter) had experienced anything like this. By the time of Eddowes' murder and with more medicos involved, the concept of what may be taking place was changing.

One more observation about timing: A surgeon like Phillips operated methodically and with a purpose to not injure the patient. A postmortem mutilator didn't operate with such restrictions. I believe it was Sequeira who suggested the mutilations on Eddowes could be carried out in maybe as few as 3 minutes. Brown speculated 5 minutes minimum. And these were doctors mind you.

Now I'm not credited in any way, but I have field dressed game (even with the intent of saving certain organs) and I could see the mutilations on both Chapman and Eddowes being carried out in just a couple of minutes.

Dr Phillips testified that it would take an hour doing it properly.

Did a lot of shooting in my earlier years. Rabbits and kangaroos. I'd be pressed do a rabbit in three minutes,let alone a 'roo. That's just me

I'll deal with Sequeira shortly,along with Baxter and his hobbies and association with London Hospital and "mikerscopes".

[DJA]

In more modern times, the renowned British forensic pathologist and veteran of literally thousands of autopsies, Dr Iain West, said in respect of Eddowes that the whole thing could have been done in 4 to 5 minutes.

Prolly take him that long trying to find the light switch.
Self promotion.
Wonder how many autopsies he performed on lung cancer victims.
Takes a lot of denial from someone like him to smoke himself to death by the age of 57.

[Sam Flynn]

Prolly take him that long trying to find the light switch.
Self promotion.
Wonder how many autopsies he performed on lung cancer victims.
Takes a lot of denial from someone like him to smoke himself to death by the age of 57.

Was any of that called for? West was a very skilled and experienced professional.

[Jon Guy]

Did a lot of shooting in my earlier years. Rabbits and kangaroos..

Why ?

[DJA]

Vermin.
Almost impossible to fully fence them off pasture.
Can take 40% of feed required for stock.
Rabbit warrens can be damn dangerous,same with 'roos as there back legs can disembowel ...... warren and disemboweling,ripper as we say here in Oz.
It's actually Straya Day,so we are speaking lots of Strine,honoring our heroes like Emma Chizzet and sinking the odd tinny.
Happy Australia Day everyone!

[DJA]

Was any of that called for? West was a very skilled and experienced professional.

He was indeed. Also had some excellent qualities.
Similar education to Henry Gawen Sutton albeit different eras.
Did West ever remark on the cut to the nose and the two marking the Maxillary sinuses?
Was he aware that Eddowes was fully clothed,lying on cobblestones in a dark corner on a cold rainy night?

The truth is,for such an experienced forensic pathologist to smoke when fully aware of the dangers and percentages, he displayed distinct psychological rationalization.
That's on personal,professional and ethical levels.

Sounds like someone Trevor "educated".

[Sam Flynn]

The cuts to the face and the displacement of the clothing would have taken mere seconds.

[DJA]

You really don't get it,dancing around statements the way you do.

If West was aware of all the facts,like Eddowes sick kidney,he would have seen significance in the marked nose and sinuses.

[Sam Flynn]

You really don't get it,dancing around statements the way you do.

I'm not dancing around anything, and I "get" most things. What I don't get is an urge to read any spookiness into Eddowes' wounds... or those of any other victim's, for that matter.

If West was aware of all the facts,like Eddowes sick kidney,he would have seen significance in the marked nose and sinuses.

Never mind Iain West - how on earth could the Ripper have known about Eddowes' sick kidney? Indeed, was Eddowes herself even aware that she had a kidney condition?

[DJA]

Never mind Iain West - how on earth could the Ripper have known about Eddowes' sick kidney? Indeed, was Eddowes herself even aware that she had a kidney condition?

Just lost a lengthy reply,so I'll be quick this time.

I believe Nichols and Eddowes (as Conway) were his inpatients together over twenty years previous. Both had rheumatic fever.

Strep pyogenes often enters via the nose,infecting the maxillary sinuses,on their way to the heart.
Usually finishes up in the intestines.
Can infect pretty much any organs,kidneys,adrenal glands,etc.
Would make Eddowes a star long term patient.

After moving in August 1888,Nichols quickly finds herself living next to Eddowes.
Eddowes goes hopping.
Nichols and Chapman (who had TB) are murdered.
Eddowes returns to claim a reward.

Re Iain West,St. Guys produced many excellent researchers including Sir William Withey Gull, a Governor, and Henry Gawen Sutton.