Richardson's View

[Abby Normal]

A number of us ...

your an extinct dinosaur? lol

[NotBlamedForNothing]

You're so cruel to me Abby, calling me a crackpot and dinosaur and all.
If you keep it up, I won't tell you who the Ripper was.

[Chava]

The latch bolt is operated by the handle.
The key locks it in place.

13 Millers Court's looked different and incorporated a button inside that could either keep the latch open (off the latch) or closed.
Grew up with similar as a child.If Mum was out when I came home,it was just a matter of sliding a sheet of paper under the door and jiggling the key out of the lock

Just a second. Wasn't Kelly opening her door by sliding her arm through the broken window and sliding the bolt back. I was always under the impression that was the case and that her bolt looked something like this. What you're talking about is the sneck on a lock that prevents automatic closure. Which is a very different thing. BTW If you needed a key to open your front door, the door was locked.

[Michael W Richards]

It is actually the finding of the Coroner in his summation based on Dr Phillip's expert testimony.

In actual fact Phillips suggested anatomical knowledge was indicated to him, but he did not state....at the Inquest anyway, that only post mortem experience could explain the displayed skill/knowledge. He did say that the weapon used did not match those used in post mortem rooms. He was complimentary on what he perceived as evident skill sets, but thats as far as he went.

Suggesting that he stated that ONLY a person well versed in post mortem dissections...as you did..is misleading.

[Abby Normal]

You're so cruel to me Abby, calling me a crackpot and dinosaur and all.
If you keep it up, I won't tell you who the Ripper was.

no! anything but that!

[DJA]

Chava,

"Moved back the catch" which I have referred to as a button,although it was larger back then.

Suggest going back over numerous threads where this had been discussed ad nauseam for decades.

Below is a much later lock,however the catch is moved up and down.

[DJA]

You're so cruel to me Abby, calling me a crackpot and dinosaur and all.
If you keep it up, I won't tell you who the Ripper was.

[Chava]

Chava,

"Moved back the catch" which I have referred to as a button,although it was larger back then.

Suggest going back over numerous threads where this had been discussed ad nauseam for decades.

Below is a much later lock,however the catch is moved up and down.

Yeah I know. I grew up with locks like that. However they were called 'locks'. And the doors I've seen in the old houses in the East End also had bolts to draw across to avoid someone breaking in via the lock. That surely is what was on the door of 13 Millers Court. The bolt. Which you could lean through the window and draw so the door would look locked if anyone tried to push. It's the only thing that makes sense. Sorry if this has been discussed before but it merits discussing again.

[DJA]

No it doesn't.

Just type "lock" into this site's search bar.

[Chava]

[QUOTE=DJA;n743621]No it doesn't.

OK. Could you walk me through Mary Kelly's use of that door lock please.

Or rather can you walk me through your understanding of that door lock please? Because the only way it can be used in the manner you describe is to lean through and hit the sneck after you leave the house so that a key would be useless. And lean through and release the snack when you return so that the door swings open. It's possible she did this. But it's not that likely in my opinion given that any variation of the button for the sneck that I remember from all those many years ago when I was a child in the 50s was actually quite small and not easily accessed at all no matter how long Kelly's arm was. And I'm sure it wasn't any bigger in the 1880s since the bigger the sneck the more expensive the lock was to manufacture. However it was common for a bolt on a door for extra security once the tenant was inside. And it's that bolt I believe Kelly used. Pushing it forward or engage it to 'lock' the door when she left. Pulling it back or off its holder to open the door when she returned. It makes a lot more sense than the idea of Kelly fumbling around for hours trying to set/release the sneck.

[DJA]

Easier if you use the search facility.

Really not interesting in arguing about what you think.

Bob Hinton posted those over 15 years ago.
Should be self explanatory.

Anyone have the MJK photo of the door? Haven't shifted some of my files to this new computer.

[DJA]

In actual fact Phillips suggested anatomical knowledge was indicated to him, but he did not state....at the Inquest anyway, that only post mortem experience could explain the displayed skill/knowledge. He did say that the weapon used did not match those used in post mortem rooms. He was complimentary on what he perceived as evident skill sets, but thats as far as he went.

Suggesting that he stated that ONLY a person well versed in post mortem dissections...as you did..is misleading.

The Coroner obviously interpreted Phillips testimony differently to yourself.

Don't accuse me of misleading by quoting the actual Inquest as reported.

Especially when you have chosen to mangle Phillips testimony beyond belief,as is your usual form.

[Michael W Richards]

As for Marys door latch, it was a Spring Latch, engaged to lock when the door closed and when left in the "open" position. It was on the left hand side, (from inside the room), of the door, it swung open to the right from the outside. It wouldnt be as easy as one might think to access it through the broken window pane.

plus...we have evidence that 2 people heard, at the same time, a female voice "as if from the court", or "as if at the door" in Sarah Lewis's case. A live female in that courtyard, or standing by her door open to the courtyard...at almost 4am. I cant see any reason to suspect it was anyone but Kelly herself, no-one claimed to own that voice, and Mary certainly couldnt have claimed it later.

[Chava]

Easier if you use the search facility.

Really not interesting in arguing about what you think.

Bob Hinton posted those over 15 years ago.
Should be self explanatory.

Anyone have the MJK photo of the door? Haven't shifted some of my files to this new computer.

If there is a pic of Kelly's door showing the lock, then that's terrific. But I've been on this case for decades and on this site for a very long time and I don't recall seeing it. It's possible 13 Millers Court had a spring lock--they were cheap. It's also possible it had a deadlock which may have been even cheaper because old-fashioned and out of style.

Of course the locks provided by Mr McCarthy may not have been the very best locks. Lizzie Prater certainly didn't trust hers. She had 2 tables pushed across the door to barricade it before she relaxed enough to go to bed. Not at all impossible that Mary Jane asked Joe Barnett to fix a bolt up to give her more security. Unlike Lizzie, she didn't have 2 tables...

[DJA]

As for Marys door latch, it was a Spring Latch, engaged to lock when the door closed and when left in the "open" position. It was on the left hand side, (from inside the room), of the door, it swung open to the right from the outside. It wouldnt be as easy as one might think to access it through the broken window pane.

Wrong side.