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  • Originally posted by Chava View Post

    If there is a pic of Kelly's door showing the lock, then that's terrific. But I've been on this case for decades and on this site for a very long time and I don't recall seeing it. It's possible 13 Millers Court had a spring lock--they were cheap. It's also possible it had a deadlock which may have been even cheaper because old-fashioned and out of style.

    Of course the locks provided by Mr McCarthy may not have been the very best locks. Lizzie Prater certainly didn't trust hers. She had 2 tables pushed across the door to barricade it before she relaxed enough to go to bed. Not at all impossible that Mary Jane asked Joe Barnett to fix a bolt up to give her more security. Unlike Lizzie, she didn't have 2 tables...

    Might have been an enhanced MJK3 with better detail.
    My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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    • Originally posted by Chava View Post

      If there is a pic of Kelly's door showing the lock, then that's terrific. But I've been on this case for decades and on this site for a very long time and I don't recall seeing it.

      Courtesy of "sgh" circa 2009.


      Click image for larger version  Name:	image_5190.jpg Views:	0 Size:	155.1 KB ID:	743667 Click image for larger version  Name:	image_5208.jpg Views:	0 Size:	140.0 KB ID:	743668 Click image for larger version  Name:	image_5206.jpg Views:	0 Size:	22.5 KB ID:	743669Courtesy of someone else.
      Last edited by DJA; 10-16-2020, 10:40 AM.
      My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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      • Originally posted by Chava View Post

        Which means the door didn't fit snugly into the frame. All you'd need to do would be to run a blade up from the bottom to lift it and get into the house. Now someone knew that. Was it Annie or was it Jack?
        Also this is the first of two occasions where the latch was how you'd get in as long as you knew the secret. The latch on Kelley's room was easy-to-access as well. In that case she'd lost the key. So used the latch to look like the door was locked. It's certainly possible her killer knew that and knew how to get into the room.
        Mrs Richardson reveals the secret, MA0913:

        The front and back doors are always left open. You have only to raise the latch with your finger and you can go in any of the houses about there.
        Andrew's the man, that is not blamed for nothing

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        • Originally posted by DJA View Post
          Courtesy of someone else.
          doorknob

          there,s nothing new, only the unexplored

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          • Originally posted by DJA View Post

            Wrong side.
            To be fair this issue has had some discussions here in the past, but if you think in just practical terms, factoring in the bumped furniture when the police entered, the crack of light shown in MJK images, and the practicality of entering a room directly vs entering to a corner then in around a door, you might gather that the door inward swung towards the windowed wall. The light shown in the MJK2 image is from the door being opened a crack.
            Michael Richards

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            • Here is MJK2 ...... Click image for larger version  Name:	mary_jane_kelly 2_mutilated_body_restored_Col.jpg Views:	0 Size:	241.4 KB ID:	743825
              Last edited by DJA; Yesterday, 05:31 PM.
              My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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              • Originally posted by DJA View Post
                Here is MJK2 ...... Click image for larger version Name:	mary_jane_kelly 2_mutilated_body_restored_Col.jpg Views:	0 Size:	241.4 KB ID:	743825
                Cheers for that Dave, posted in context. I think what it shows, is that regardless of any perceived motive, that's beyond inhuman, regardless of how many times I've seen it.

                Also, the light is the photographers flash bulb. It's nothing to do with the angle of the door. Or the location of the knob.

                And yes, I know it was Michael that mentioned the light in MJK2, but I'm guessing he'll read this. If he meant the MJK 3 pic, with the strip of light, well that's a different debate.
                Thems the Vagaries.....

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                • Anyone read post #767 ..... or at least look at the pictures?

                  My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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                  • Originally posted by DJA View Post
                    Anyone read post #767 ..... or at least look at the pictures?
                    Hell yeah, that pencil sketch doorknob is exactly what I've been after for my Cotswold cottage. Can't find one anywhere.
                    Thems the Vagaries.....

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                    • My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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                      • Originally posted by DJA View Post
                        By 'Cotswold' I meant council. And by cottage, I meant flat. And by lock, I meant me desperately shouting piss off or I'll call the police.
                        Thems the Vagaries.....

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                        • Cross threading a bit .... a McCarthy trained neddy has caught my attention in the 8th at Mornington.
                          My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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                          • Originally posted by DJA View Post
                            Anyone read post #767 ..... or at least look at the pictures?
                            Yes. Sorry. I couldn't get back to this earlier. And I understand why you're surmising the sneck. However we are not seeing a picture of the door full on. I doubt there was one. They broke it down. I'm not married to the idea of a bolt. But I also note that Lizzie Prater barred her door upstairs with a couple of tables and I don't think it's beyond probability that Mary Jane did something extra as well. As for the door itself, I've been looking and cannot find this immediately. But when the jurors went to visit the scene of the crime I believe it was noted that the door swung back sharpish and hit something--I believe it was a chair--on the way in. Cox describes Mr Blotchy as basically slamming that door when he went into Kelly's room. He may not have intended to slam it. It may have looked a lot more substantial than it actually was.
                            However that's not the only slamming door. Getting back to Chapman, I believe that door to the yard was pretty loose too. These doors all seem to have been fairly flimsy. Which doesn't surprise me re Millers Court which McCarthy wouldn't have spent an extra farthing on. But does surprise me re 29 Hanbury St which was probably quite well-built when it went up. I'd have expected a solid door there.

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                            • The door was not broken down.The picture is of the door full on.
                              It was jemmied open by McCathy using a pick.
                              You are the only person I know of mentioning a sneck.

                              Yep,let's get back on topic.
                              My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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                              • Originally posted by Chava View Post

                                Getting back to Chapman, I believe that door to the yard was pretty loose too. These doors all seem to have been fairly flimsy. Which doesn't surprise me re Millers Court which McCarthy wouldn't have spent an extra farthing on. But does surprise me re 29 Hanbury St which was probably quite well-built when it went up. I'd have expected a solid door there.
                                How do you know the doors along Hanbury St weren't solid?
                                There is just a little trick to opening the door at #29 - raise the latch with a finger, and you're in.
                                That doesn't imply the door is necessarily loose or flimsy, and one still has to know this little trick with the latch, to open it.
                                However, for some reason that I just can't put my finger on, Madam Richardson often has the door wide open.
                                Andrew's the man, that is not blamed for nothing

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