Richardson's View

[Curious Cat]

No. I'm not sure. I'm not sure about anything in this case. But I am questioning Richardson's testimony. Because having looked at pix of the business end of the back yard of 29 Hanbury Street I don't think its particularly credible. And one possible reason for him making up an elaborate story is that he didn't want to tell his ma that he hadn't been there.

I don't deal in absolutes in the Whitechapel Murders. I deal in possibilities. And I think we should question everything.

There are possibilities based on what's there to draw information from and take a logical step, but where is the logical step that his mother would be so reactionary to learn he hadn't been in the yard that the elaboration was needed?

What do you see in the photos of the yard that impacts on what you feel is credible?

[Chava]

There are possibilities based on what's there to draw information from and take a logical step, but where is the logical step that his mother would be so reactionary to learn he hadn't been in the yard that the elaboration was needed?

What do you see in the photos of the yard that impacts on what you feel is credible?

Funnily, it's the steps.

The middle step--which he says he sat on--is shallow and quite low. It's possible I'm sure to balance on it and then bring one leg over the other to cut the leather off the boot. But I doubt anyone would do it if they just sat down naturally rather than trying to prove a point. You'd have to balance & it wouldn't be comfortable even for me--and I'm 5'2". If he sat on that step he would certainly see the body. If he sat on the step above--and was cutting leather off his right boot--he may not because of the location of the door and the angle of his body. I pointed this out when I began the thread. Richardson may of course have been there and the body wasn't. But I think it's possible either he wasn't there at all or that he just waltzed in, opened the door, looked down to his right at the cellar door and waltzed out. There is something else I never noticed before. But that I think is another thread...

[DJA]

Sitting on the middle step,his feet [plural] on the flags of the yard.

[Chava]

But it doesn't look like that in real life does it?

There's a top step and a middle step. But the lower step isn't a step at all. It's about 2" high. So not quite as comfy as it looks is it?

[DJA]

That photo was taken over 60 years after the murder.

Soil and grass had built up.

[Abby Normal]

Funnily, it's the steps.

The middle step--which he says he sat on--is shallow and quite low. It's possible I'm sure to balance on it and then bring one leg over the other to cut the leather off the boot. But I doubt anyone would do it if they just sat down naturally rather than trying to prove a point. You'd have to balance & it wouldn't be comfortable even for me--and I'm 5'2". If he sat on that step he would certainly see the body. If he sat on the step above--and was cutting leather off his right boot--he may not because of the location of the door and the angle of his body. I pointed this out when I began the thread. Richardson may of course have been there and the body wasn't. But I think it's possible either he wasn't there at all or that he just waltzed in, opened the door, looked down to his right at the cellar door and waltzed out. There is something else I never noticed before. But that I think is another thread...

If "he just waltzed in, opened the door, looked down to his right at the cellar door and waltzed out. " why on gods green earth didnt he just say that? no harm, no foul.

[Abby Normal]

But it doesn't look like that in real life does it?

There's a top step and a middle step. But the lower step isn't a step at all. It's about 2" high. So not quite as comfy as it looks is it?

according to that pic, the middle step would be the most reasonable place to sit. the top step, his knees would have been to his chin.
its a moot point though because either step he sat on he would have more than likely seen a dead body at his feet.

[DJA]

Here's an earlier photo.Different door, not hung at the top step.

[Chava]

That photo was taken over 60 years after the murder.

Soil and grass had built up.

But the flag in front of the 'third step' was still in place. And looks the same as the one above it. So was put there at the same time. If soil and grass had built up it would have been covered.

[Chava]

Here's an earlier photo.

Thanks for this! That third step is still extremely shallow. But it makes it clear how much higher the door to the next back yard was in relation to #29. That fence was 5'6" tall I think. Cadoche would have been above it as he steps up to re-enter the house. If there was anyone right next door at #29 I can't believe he wouldn't have been noticed. And given there's hardly any room there between the houses, you'd hear & see a lot more than a faint cry of 'no' what with all the goings-on.

[Abby Normal]

Here's an earlier photo.Different door, not hung at the top step.

god what a desolate looking hell hole

[DJA]

Thanks for this! That third step is still extremely shallow. But it makes it clear how much higher the door to the next back yard was in relation to #29. That fence was 5'6" tall I think. Cadoche would have been above it as he steps up to re-enter the house. If there was anyone right next door at #29 I can't believe he wouldn't have been noticed. And given there's hardly any room there between the houses, you'd hear & see a lot more than a faint cry of 'no' what with all the goings-on.

The fence was between 5'6" and 6'.

The top of 27's door is possibly 4" taller than 29's.Depends on how they were hung in 1888.

Apparently the fence was in very poor condition.

[DJA]

god what a desolate looking hell hole

Doubt Mrs Richardson,who held weekly prayer meetings , would agree

[NotBlamedForNothing]

Thanks for this! That third step is still extremely shallow. But it makes it clear how much higher the door to the next back yard was in relation to #29. That fence was 5'6" tall I think. Cadoche would have been above it as he steps up to re-enter the house. If there was anyone right next door at #29 I can't believe he wouldn't have been noticed. And given there's hardly any room there between the houses, you'd hear & see a lot more than a faint cry of 'no' what with all the goings-on.

JR: I saw the body two or three minutes before the doctor came. I was then in the adjoining yard.

Does that imply Richardson could not only see straight over the fence, but could actually look at a body lying on the ground on the other side, not far from the fence?

If no, was he lying?
If yes, then what might Cadosch have seen if the murder was occurring when he goes outside the second time?

[DJA]

Might have seen the body through the fence which was in poor repair.