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  • Originally posted by Chava View Post

    No. I'm not sure. I'm not sure about anything in this case. But I am questioning Richardson's testimony. Because having looked at pix of the business end of the back yard of 29 Hanbury Street I don't think its particularly credible. And one possible reason for him making up an elaborate story is that he didn't want to tell his ma that he hadn't been there.

    I don't deal in absolutes in the Whitechapel Murders. I deal in possibilities. And I think we should question everything.
    There are possibilities based on what's there to draw information from and take a logical step, but where is the logical step that his mother would be so reactionary to learn he hadn't been in the yard that the elaboration was needed?

    What do you see in the photos of the yard that impacts on what you feel is credible?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Curious Cat View Post

      There are possibilities based on what's there to draw information from and take a logical step, but where is the logical step that his mother would be so reactionary to learn he hadn't been in the yard that the elaboration was needed?

      What do you see in the photos of the yard that impacts on what you feel is credible?
      Funnily, it's the steps.

      The middle step--which he says he sat on--is shallow and quite low. It's possible I'm sure to balance on it and then bring one leg over the other to cut the leather off the boot. But I doubt anyone would do it if they just sat down naturally rather than trying to prove a point. You'd have to balance & it wouldn't be comfortable even for me--and I'm 5'2". If he sat on that step he would certainly see the body. If he sat on the step above--and was cutting leather off his right boot--he may not because of the location of the door and the angle of his body. I pointed this out when I began the thread. Richardson may of course have been there and the body wasn't. But I think it's possible either he wasn't there at all or that he just waltzed in, opened the door, looked down to his right at the cellar door and waltzed out. There is something else I never noticed before. But that I think is another thread...

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      • Click image for larger version

Name:	annie_chapman_murder_illustrated_police.jpg
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ID:	743123 Sitting on the middle step,his feet [plural] on the flags of the yard.
        My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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        • But it doesn't look like that in real life does it?

          There's a top step and a middle step. But the lower step isn't a step at all. It's about 2" high. So not quite as comfy as it looks is it?

          Click image for larger version

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ID:	743126

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          • That photo was taken over 60 years after the murder.

            Soil and grass had built up.
            My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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            • Originally posted by Chava View Post

              Funnily, it's the steps.

              The middle step--which he says he sat on--is shallow and quite low. It's possible I'm sure to balance on it and then bring one leg over the other to cut the leather off the boot. But I doubt anyone would do it if they just sat down naturally rather than trying to prove a point. You'd have to balance & it wouldn't be comfortable even for me--and I'm 5'2". If he sat on that step he would certainly see the body. If he sat on the step above--and was cutting leather off his right boot--he may not because of the location of the door and the angle of his body. I pointed this out when I began the thread. Richardson may of course have been there and the body wasn't. But I think it's possible either he wasn't there at all or that he just waltzed in, opened the door, looked down to his right at the cellar door and waltzed out. There is something else I never noticed before. But that I think is another thread...
              If "he just waltzed in, opened the door, looked down to his right at the cellar door and waltzed out. " why on gods green earth didnt he just say that? no harm, no foul.


              "Is all that we see or seem
              but a dream within a dream?"

              -Edgar Allan Poe


              "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
              quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

              -Frederick G. Abberline

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Chava View Post
                But it doesn't look like that in real life does it?

                There's a top step and a middle step. But the lower step isn't a step at all. It's about 2" high. So not quite as comfy as it looks is it?

                Click image for larger version

Name:	fetch?id=741912&d=1600195114.jpg
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Size:	98.5 KB
ID:	743126
                according to that pic, the middle step would be the most reasonable place to sit. the top step, his knees would have been to his chin.
                its a moot point though because either step he sat on he would have more than likely seen a dead body at his feet.
                "Is all that we see or seem
                but a dream within a dream?"

                -Edgar Allan Poe


                "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                -Frederick G. Abberline

                Comment


                • Click image for larger version  Name:	29 Hanbury Street rear.jpg Views:	0 Size:	59.5 KB ID:	743132 Here's an earlier photo.Different door, not hung at the top step.
                  Last edited by DJA; 10-06-2020, 05:02 PM.
                  My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by DJA View Post
                    That photo was taken over 60 years after the murder.

                    Soil and grass had built up.
                    But the flag in front of the 'third step' was still in place. And looks the same as the one above it. So was put there at the same time. If soil and grass had built up it would have been covered.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by DJA View Post
                      Click image for larger version

Name:	29 Hanbury Street rear.jpg
Views:	113
Size:	59.5 KB
ID:	743132 Here's an earlier photo.
                      Thanks for this! That third step is still extremely shallow. But it makes it clear how much higher the door to the next back yard was in relation to #29. That fence was 5'6" tall I think. Cadoche would have been above it as he steps up to re-enter the house. If there was anyone right next door at #29 I can't believe he wouldn't have been noticed. And given there's hardly any room there between the houses, you'd hear & see a lot more than a faint cry of 'no' what with all the goings-on.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by DJA View Post
                        Click image for larger version Name:	29 Hanbury Street rear.jpg Views:	0 Size:	59.5 KB ID:	743132 Here's an earlier photo.Different door, not hung at the top step.
                        god what a desolate looking hell hole
                        "Is all that we see or seem
                        but a dream within a dream?"

                        -Edgar Allan Poe


                        "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                        quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                        -Frederick G. Abberline

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Chava View Post

                          Thanks for this! That third step is still extremely shallow. But it makes it clear how much higher the door to the next back yard was in relation to #29. That fence was 5'6" tall I think. Cadoche would have been above it as he steps up to re-enter the house. If there was anyone right next door at #29 I can't believe he wouldn't have been noticed. And given there's hardly any room there between the houses, you'd hear & see a lot more than a faint cry of 'no' what with all the goings-on.
                          The fence was between 5'6" and 6'.

                          The top of 27's door is possibly 4" taller than 29's.Depends on how they were hung in 1888.

                          Apparently the fence was in very poor condition.
                          My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

                            god what a desolate looking hell hole
                            Doubt Mrs Richardson,who held weekly prayer meetings , would agree
                            My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Chava View Post

                              Thanks for this! That third step is still extremely shallow. But it makes it clear how much higher the door to the next back yard was in relation to #29. That fence was 5'6" tall I think. Cadoche would have been above it as he steps up to re-enter the house. If there was anyone right next door at #29 I can't believe he wouldn't have been noticed. And given there's hardly any room there between the houses, you'd hear & see a lot more than a faint cry of 'no' what with all the goings-on.
                              JR: I saw the body two or three minutes before the doctor came. I was then in the adjoining yard.

                              Does that imply Richardson could not only see straight over the fence, but could actually look at a body lying on the ground on the other side, not far from the fence?

                              If no, was he lying?
                              If yes, then what might Cadosch have seen if the murder was occurring when he goes outside the second time?
                              Andrew's the man, that is not blamed for nothing

                              Comment


                              • Might have seen the body through the fence which was in poor repair.
                                My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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