Two knives, two people?

[Joshua Rogan]

thats some serious rough sex

Or not, according to Killeen;

"From appearances, there was no reason to suppose that recent intimacy had taken place"

[Sam Flynn]

Or not, according to Killeen;

"From appearances, there was no reason to suppose that recent intimacy had taken place"

Presumably Killeen was looking for sperm.

[Losmandris]

Or not, according to Killeen;

"From appearances, there was no reason to suppose that recent intimacy had taken place"

Is there anything in the idea that Martha was sleeping at the time? This could explain the location and the fact that no screaming was heard and possibly why she was not strangled. If this was the case, it would imply the murderer moved her skirts intentionally (increasing the likelihood that she was a ripper victim?)

[Sam Flynn]

(increasing the likelihood that she was a ripper victim?)

I'm not sure we can read much into the skirt-lifting. The Ripper most likely did this so that he could "operate" on his victims's abdomens without being hampered by cloth but, as there's no evidence of any abdominal operation being carried out in Tabram's case, her skirt was probably lifted for a different reason. She might even have done it herself in preparation for coitus.

Either way, lifting a woman's skirt is hardly something weird and wacky for a killer to do or to think up. It's not in the same ballpark as cutting out organs, that's for sure.

[Joshua Rogan]

Is there anything in the idea that Martha was sleeping at the time? This could explain the location and the fact that no screaming was heard and possibly why she was not strangled. If this was the case, it would imply the murderer moved her skirts intentionally (increasing the likelihood that she was a ripper victim?)

It's quite possible. Witness Alfred Crow passed the spot at half past three and said;

"On my way up I noticed that there was somebody lying on the first landing. My eyesight is very good, and I noticed a body there just as I turned the landing. I am accustomed, however, to find people lying sleeping there, and took no notice at the time - not even to ascertain whether the body was that of a male or female. I don't know, therefore, whether the deceased was alive or dead at the time I saw her."

So the staircase was indeed used by rough sleepers on occasion.

[Yabs]

Having seen the photo of the back of George yard buildings, there’s a landing both internally and externally.
do we know for definite if she was found on the inner or outer landing?
although at a guess, if she was found where people often slept I would say inner

[Losmandris]

Having seen the photo of the back of George yard buildings, there’s a landing both internally and externally.
do we know for definite if she was found on the inner or outer landing?
although at a guess, if she was found where people often slept I would say inner

If she was found sleeping does that mean that any evidence relating to what she had been up to earlier in the evening becomes irrelevant?

[Harry D]

Errata made a good argument that it might not have been two knives, but the angle of the final blow might have given the false impression of a second murder weapon. Wish I could find it.

[Michael W Richards]

If your best friend had savagely attacked another woman and you found him slumped over her with a knife in his hand.Would you join in or ask what the hell he was doing, shout murder, or basically run for it. I doubt I would do the first option especially considering he had been talking to a bobby earlier and he would have undoubtedly have gone to the gallows if caught.
Regards Darryl

I imagine by the above that you have no military background nor do you know anyone who has one, because bonds like I described are commonplace among soldiers. Sure, this could be the minority situation where the buddy abandons his pal, but not the most probable. 2 weapons means 2 people almost certainly, my suggestion fits those parameters and my reasoning has historical precedent among the military ranks.

It also is supported by the use of a bayonet, something soldiers legally carried in public on Bank Holidays.

[Abby Normal]

Is there anything in the idea that Martha was sleeping at the time? This could explain the location and the fact that no screaming was heard and possibly why she was not strangled. If this was the case, it would imply the murderer moved her skirts intentionally (increasing the likelihood that she was a ripper victim?)

Hi Los
absolutely-ive often wondered the same thing. maybe after her fling with the soldier (if he wasn't her killer). she took a little nap on the landing-where the ripper found her.

[Abby Normal]

I'm not sure we can read much into the skirt-lifting. The Ripper most likely did this so that he could "operate" on his victims's abdomens without being hampered by cloth but, as there's no evidence of any abdominal operation being carried out in Tabram's case, her skirt was probably lifted for a different reason. She might even have done it herself in preparation for coitus.

Either way, lifting a woman's skirt is hardly something weird and wacky for a killer to do or to think up. It's not in the same ballpark as cutting out organs, that's for sure.

yeah but lifting the skirts is something we KNOW the ripper did with most of his other victims Sam

[Sam Flynn]

yeah but lifting the skirts is something we KNOW the ripper did with most of his other victims Sam

He wanted to cut out their abdominal organs, so what else could he realistically do?

[Losmandris]

Hi Los
absolutely-ive often wondered the same thing. maybe after her fling with the soldier (if he wasn't her killer). she took a little nap on the landing-where the ripper found her.

I think it certainly explains why there were no screams reported, especially if the stab to the heart was the first wound inflicted.

Tristan

[Darryl Kenyon]

I imagine by the above that you have no military background nor do you know anyone who has one, because bonds like I described are commonplace among soldiers. Sure, this could be the minority situation where the buddy abandons his pal, but not the most probable. 2 weapons means 2 people almost certainly, my suggestion fits those parameters and my reasoning has historical precedent among the military ranks.

It also is supported by the use of a bayonet, something soldiers legally carried in public on Bank Holidays.

So what you are saying Michael is most soldiers, and I am assuming you are including yourself in that scenario would help a pal who he see's savagely and frenziedly stabbing a woman dozens of times who is laid on the ground and may already be dead by giving him a helping hand and administering a Coup de gras to the poor unfortunate female.
Are you sure about that Michael?
Regards Darryl

[Michael W Richards]

How about if you add a soldier that I fought with and defended.. with my life, as he did with me... when in battle. Hell yes, that's why I said what I said, you obviously aren't aware of how deep many soldiers bonds go. Its merciful ending the suffering of someone who Im sure looked like they may be dying, and its the loyalty that would make him help his comrade. He may not have liked doing it...but that's not the point.