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[caz]

Hi Caz,

Do you think that it is in any way indicative of Mike's natural instinct to confabulate that he added this completely irrelevant detail (which turned out, like all the other conflabs in his life, to be untrue) to his Jan 1995 affy David?

Yes, your Ikeyness, I think there is more than sufficient evidence for me to think it is so indicative.

I wonder if this tendency of Mike's was at work during the affy David when he described a large number of details - such as the fingerless compass - even though not a single note of his claim has ever been verified unless you change what he meant and change when he meant it?

I suspect it was, your Ikeyness. If one substantially alters the details in someone else's sworn affidavit, in relation to the claimed events therein, or the claimed order and timing of the said events, and then imposes one's own interpretation, which may not have been one the swearer intended to give, I believe the legal term for it can be got at by rearranging the words ear, silk, purse and sow's.

Obviously, for a long time it was possible to blame the 'stroke' that Mike had 'had' and which only he appeared to have known about as the reason for his affy David being fundamentally true although the details were 'mashed-up' in his mind. Do you think the fact that Mike's medical records from his GP - Dr Khan - showed no reference to a stroke or any kind of mental condition was so awkward for those who want so deeply to believe his version of events that this is the reason why the 'stroke' never gets mentioned any more?

I suspect this to be merely a temporary hiatus hernia, your Ikeyness, which will turn back into a genuine stroke, when the Bongo Believers think we have either taken our eye off the ball, or forgotten all about the doctor's report disproving it.

Do you think it is possible - on any level, however unintentional - that those who argue Mike's account gives a solid rendition of the construction and timeline of a forgery may just be a wee bit desperate?

With respect, your Ikeyness, I would think this is one for the psychiatr - er - psychologists, and is therefore outside of my remit, as a humble wordsmith.

Just throwing some ideas around in the countdown to Lord Orsam's Big Reveal (LOBR, as history will doubtless denote it).

PS Back at school, our English teacher told us that he could construct a meaningful sentence containing the word 'had' eleven times consecutively. Anyone care to offer a solution to this great conundrum?

Cheers,

Ike

I once knew the 'had had had etc...' sentence but I can't remember it now and I'm not going to cheat and look it up. One 'had' for each of the eleven days it took Mrs Bongo to put pen to paper and create his DAiry.

The sentence handed down to Bongo for his part in the diary's downfall should have been no longer than eleven days, but some people still don't know that they were 'had' when he first went to Harold Brough in June 1994.

As for LOBR, I think the full version ought to go down in history as LOBSTER: Lord O's Big Sexy Truest Ever Reveal.

A tail served up with get-out claws and a suitable tool for the job.

And no lettuce for me thanks. [Ask Gary B.]

Love,

Caz
X

[Trevor Marriott]

Not up to me to disprove anything, my old sport. Were you really a copper, or are you just codding, dear old boss?

No specific dates are needed by someone who simply remembers being at a certain place, why they were there and what they did. Doesn't mean there are no other ways or means of matching up a shared experience - such as a pop concert or sporting event - with the date when it actually took place.

The work sheets give us the specific date and what was happening in Battecrease on a certain occasion. The firm's boss, and the electricians involved, remembered the job itself; which members of the Portus & Rhodes crew were sent there; and where in the house it was being done, so nobody needed to work from memory to pin their individual experiences to an actual date, nor were they expected to do so. The wiring job for the first floor storage heaters was a one-off instance - ha ha - so they weren't all remembering another time or place. What nobody can do is to 'remember' back to an event that happened many years ago, including who else was there at the time and what they were doing, if they weren't actually there to experience it for themselves. Someone could pretend to have worked on the floorboard job in Maybrick's old bedroom, assuming he had a motive for doing so, but he'd still need to have learned all his facts in advance from those who were actually there at the time, and then hope they would not remember he was conspicuous by his absence. Do you think Eddie had a motive for saying he was there if he wasn't? And how did he have all the right answers prepared, when he didn't know what the questions were going to be?

I'm surprised you haven't seen and done all this kind of stuff before, Trev. It must have all been on The Bill at one time or other. My daughter appeared twice on The Bill quite by accident, when she happened to be in the right place at the right time. Once was in a cafe in Wimbledon, and the other time was somewhere in the Croydon area IIRC. She was asked if she'd like to be among the extras. 'Little Caz' has an excellent memory of both occasions, because something memorable happened, but I very much doubt she'd be able to date either. I couldn't even tell you which year or years she appeared.

Love,

Mama Caz
X

I don't think anyone is doubting that workmen spent some considerable time at the house, the issue is did they find the diary hidden as has been suggested and if they did what did they actually do with it? The truth is out there

I note you have as yet not answered the questions I posed regarding proving or disproving the content of the affidavit, as to what Barrett says he and his wife did to write the diary. Perhaps you would be so kind as to at your earliest convenience.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Iconoclast]

I need Ike's statistical analysis on the odds of that happening. My brain not so good these days.

Astonishingly unlikely indeed, erobitha. Like massively implausible.

Context: If you had £1million in the bank, would you bet £1million on Crawley Town winning the Premiership within five years?

I assume the answer is No. Well, the odds of the double event occurring on the same day are probably about as unlikely as Crawley Town winning the Premiership within five years (worse still if we allow the double event to possibly have occurred on a weekend or Bank Holiday).

And yet the double event appears to have happened. Only one interpretation is possible - the two events were causally linked.

Ike

[Iconoclast]

I once knew the 'had had had etc...' sentence but I can't remember it now and I'm not going to cheat and look it up. One 'had' for each of the eleven days it took Mrs Bongo to put pen to paper and create his DAiry.

Billy, where Bob had had "had had", had had "had". "Had had" had had the examiner's approval. Bish bosh!

As for LOBR, I think the full version ought to go down in history as LOBSTER: Lord O's Big Sexy Truest Ever Reveal.

I love it - the big lobster!



Although we remember events but not when they occurred, who amongst us is likely to ever forget 2pm on August 1, 2020 and what we are doing when the lobster news breaks?

I imagine that I'll be rather crabby for for the rest of the day ...

Ike

[Columbo]

The idea of the Diary came from a discussion between Tony Devereux, Anne Barrett my wife and myself

I told my wife Anne Barrett, I said, "Anne I'll write a best seller here, we can't fail".

Roughly round about January, February 1990 Anne Barrett and I finally decided to go ahead and write the Diary of Jack the Ripper. In fact Anne purchased a Diary, a red leather backed Diary for L25.00p, she made the purchase through a firm in the 1986 Writers Year Book, I cannot remember their name, she paid for the Diary by cheque in the amount of L25 which was drawn on her Lloyds Bank Account, Water Street Branch, Liverpool.

At about the same time as all this was being discussed by my wife and I. I spoke to William Graham about our idea. This was my wifes father and he said to me, its a good idea, if you can get away with it and in fact he gave me L50 towards expenses which I expected to pay at least for the appropriate paper should I find it.
I feel sure it was the end of January 1990 when I went to the Auctioneer, Outhwaite & Litherland,

It was about 11.30am in the morning when I attended the Auctioneers. I found a photograph Album which contained approximately, approximately (sic) 125 pages of photographs. They were old photographs and they were all to do with the 1914/1918 1st World War. This Album was part of lot No.126 which was for auction with a 'brass compass', it looked to me like a 'seaman's Compass', it was round faced with a square encasement, all of which was brass, it was marked on the face, North South, East and West in heavy lettering. I particularly noticed that the compass had no 'fingers'.

When the bidding stated (sic) I noticed another man who was interested in the itmes (sic) he was smartly dressed, I would say in his middle forties, he was interested in the photographs. I noticed that his collar and tie were immaculate and I think he was a Military man.
This man bid up to L45 and then I bid L50 and the other man dropped out.

At this stage I was given a ticket on which was marked the item number and the price I had bid. I then had to hand this ticket over to the Office and I paid L50. This ticked was stamped. I woman, slim build, aged about 35/40 years dealt with me and she asked me my name, which I gave as P Williams, XXXXXXXXXXXXX I think I gave the number as 47. When I was asked for details about me the name Williams arose because I purchased my house from a Mr P Williams, the road name I used is in fact the next street to my mums address,

When I got the Album and Compass home, I examined it closely, inside the front cover I noticed a makers stamp mark, dated 1908 or 1909 to remove this without trace I soaked the whole of the front cover in Linseed Oil, once the oil was absorbed by the front cover, which took about 2 days to dry out. I even used the heat from the gas oven to assist in the drying out.

I then removed the makers seal which was ready to fall off. I then took a 'Stanley Knife' and removed all the photographs, and quite a few pages.
I then made a mark 'kidney' shaped, just below centre inside the cover with the Knife.
This last 64 pages inside the Album which Anne and I decided would be the Diary. Anne and I went to town in Liverpool and in Bold Street I bought three pens, that would hold fountain nibs, the little brass nibs. I bought 22 brass nibs at about 7p to 12p, a variety of small brass nibs, all from the 'Medice' art gallery.

Anne Barrett and I visited the Bluecoat Chambers Art shop and we purchased a small bottle of Diamine Manuscript ink. I cannot remember the exact price of the Ink. I think it was less than a pound.

I sat in the living room by the rear lounge window in the corner with my word processor, Anne Barrett sat with her back on to me as she wrote the manuscript. This pose was later filmed by Paul Feldman of MIA Productions Limited.
Several days prior to our purchase of materials I had started to roughly outline the Diary on my word processor.

Much to my regret there was a witness to this, my young daughter Caroline. (I wonder what happened to Caroline?) is it a coincidence?

During this period when we were writing the Diary, Tony Devereux was house-bound, very ill and in fact after we completed the Diary we left it for a while with Tony being severly (sic) ill and in fact he died late May early June 1990.

During the writing of the diary of Jack the Ripper, when I was dictating to Anne, mistakes occurred from time to time for example, Page 6 of the diary, 2nd paragraph, line 9 starts with an ink blot, this blot covers a mistake when I told Anne to write down James instead of thomas. The mistake was covered by the Ink Blot.

Page 226 of the Book, page 20, centre page inverted commas, quote "TURN ROUND THREE TIMES, AND CATCH WHOM YOU MAY". This was from Punch Magazine, 3rd week in September 1888. The journalist was P.W. WENN.

Page 228 of the book, page 22 Diary, centre top verse large ink blot which covers the letter 's' which Anne Barrett wrote down by mistake.

Page 250 book, page 44 Diary, centre page, quote: "OH COSTLY INTERCOURSE OF DEATH". This quotation I took from SPHERE HISTORY OF LITERATURE, Volume 2 English Poetry and Prose 1540-1671, Edited by Christopher Ricks, however, Anne Barrett made a mistake when she wrote it down, she should have written down 'O' not 'OH'.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Seems pretty clear cut to me. He faked it.

[erobitha]

Seems pretty clear cut to me. He faked it.

Great analysis Columbo. It's insight like that has helped shake the case to it's very foundations.

Where were you when we needed you sooner?

[Columbo]

Great analysis Columbo. It's insight like that has helped shake the case to it's very foundations.

Where were you when we needed you sooner?

I was working on the Lizzie Borden case. Solved it!

[Columbo]

I really don't understand why anyone still believes this. Barrett confessed after his divorce. He provided concrete evidence he did it, even though some on here think it's not. It really is pretty clear cut. Maybrick was not the ripper.

[erobitha]

I really don't understand why anyone still believes this. Barrett confessed after his divorced. He provided concrete evidence he did it, even though some on here think it's not. It really is pretty clear cut. Maybrick was not the ripper.

Pray tell Columbo, enlighten us with the "concrete evidence" of his forgery. The real Columbo might ascertain that perhaps he was not in the best mental state when submitting this. There is a significant chunk missing at the start of the copy and paste Trevor displayed which might well give you a short insight into the workings of this world class hoaxer. The real Columbo might have double checked that. I'll paste it below:

"I MICHAEL BARRETT, make oath and state as follows:-

That I am an Author by occupation and a former Scrap Metal Merchant. I reside alone at XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX, and at this time I am incapacitated due to an accident., for which I am attending Hospital as an out-patient. I have this day been informed that it may be neccessary (sic) for them to amputate two of the fingers on my right hand."

He could not even tell the truth past the second sentence. He never had such an injury where his fingers needed to be amputated. It was nonsense designed to garner reader sympathy.

With regards to his "how" and "who" - it did not contain one shred of evidence which has actually supported any of the claims. Unless like the real Columbo you can provide some?

Mike is not our master hoaxer for so many reasons, but I cannot until after 2pm on 1st August 2020, be certain that someone else MIGHT have hoaxed it. It's at that time and that day Lord O will deliver his final hammer blow to the whole affair.

We will all know the truth then. Even Columbo.

[Columbo]

Mike is not our master hoaxer for so many reasons, but I cannot until after 2pm on 1st August 2020, be certain that someone else MIGHT have hoaxed it. It's at that time and that day Lord O will deliver his final hammer blow to the whole affair.

We will all know the truth then. Even Columbo.

You're a hoot! but you don't need to be a master hoaxer to fake this. A little research and a good imagination is all that you need. I think you're gonna be a bit disappointed on August 1st. Oh, one more thing. Outside of the Diary, what ties has anyone come up with for Maybrick as a viable suspect? He doesn't match the descriptions, he was much older and in ill health. Thinking this Diary is real doesn't matter if you can't make a case for Maybrick.

[erobitha]

You're a hoot! but you don't need to be a master hoaxer to fake this. A little research and a good imagination is all that you need. I think you're gonna be a bit disappointed on August 1st. Oh, one more thing. Outside of the Diary, what ties has anyone come up with for Maybrick as a viable suspect? He doesn't match the descriptions, he was much older and in ill health. Thinking this Diary is real doesn't matter if you can't make a case for Maybrick.

The watch my dear boy, the watch. It was the thing that made me sit up and notice in the first place, and I'm guessing if the scrapbook is proved beyond all reasonable doubt as being a fake at 2pm on 1st August 2020, then I believe it was done so to support the watch's existence. The science on the watch is quite compelling. The signature matches Maybrick's.

With regards to eye witness accounts you simply cannot put too much weight on any of them being all that reliable. Escpecially not Hutchinson's. That level of detail in poor light leaves more questions than answers, despite Abberline's confidence in him at the time, too much detail is worse than too little. Written testimony does not portray the confidence in the answers of the wiitness with regards to key details. A recent study was conducted which showed eye witness reliability is heavily connected to the response type and speed to certain prompts. Ums and Aaahs are like poker tells, and show that the witness is not all that sure on certain details, and therefore you can downgrade the reliability of that specific detail. It looks like such techniques are finding their way into modern policing. When they respond quickly and with confidence you can upweight that detail. In written testimony, all of that is omitted and is unknown.

You could quite easily put together some kind of composite from many of the accounts that actually reflect Maybrick quite well. He really only needed to change his hat here and there to throw a number of witnesses off the scent. I actually think the best witness account is actually Mrs Cox on MJK. Also, have you seen what arsenic can do to someone's mental and physical state both postively and negatively? Some on here even thought 70 year old Gull who had two strokes was capable. A 49 year old high on arsenic is not all that improbable.

When the science rules the watch out is when I rule out Maybirck, but for 28 years no-one has conclusively ruled out the scrapbook. Until 2pm on 1st August 2020 of course.

[Iconoclast]

You're a hoot! but you don't need to be a master hoaxer to fake this. A little research and a good imagination is all that you need. I think you're gonna be a bit disappointed on August 1st. Oh, one more thing. Outside of the Diary, what ties has anyone come up with for Maybrick as a viable suspect? He doesn't match the descriptions, he was much older and in ill health. Thinking this Diary is real doesn't matter if you can't make a case for Maybrick.

Honestly Calumny, you're at least 28 years too late with this "Think I'll wind up the Maybrick believers" routine. It's passé. We've seen your type come and go a thousand times. Now, Harry D, here really is a WUP!

Erobitha, you can tell from his fragile, basic grasp of the case that he's come over here for a bit of jolly. Don't give him the air space and he'll quickly waddle off again to try to get a rise elsewhere.

It's all over in just five days time. We should enjoy this time for soon it will all have passed.

Ike

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

Has anyone checked the Book of Revelation? I'm sure it predicts Orsam Day.

Life in a post diary world. I can just imagine the giant posters of David Barats head everywhere. Lord Orsam is watching you. The Pro Maybrick believers secretly passing around copies of "Inside Story", fearing capture for their thought crimes. A two minutes hate as Iconoclasts avatar flashes up on the TV screen.

Ironically, 1984 starts with a guy writing a diary on a bright cold day in April!

[Trevor Marriott]

Seems pretty clear cut to me. He faked it.

Can you disprove what he wrote ?

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[erobitha]

Just wanted to add. If your sole ambition when going to a solicitor, and submitting a legal oath of an affidavit, is designed to make a statement of truth, then why has none of the elements within the statement ever been backed up with hard evidence? Confess properly - give us the actual source materials for how each page was constructed and what measures you took to jump over many, many lasers - we are intrigued. Show us the receipts of the books, pens, inks and materials. Show us the magic dear wizard. Surely that’s its purpose, but yet we are and where we have always been, bereft of hard evidence.

On some of the logic displayed on this thread I could go to my solicitor tomorrow and draw a picture in crayon of the Mona Lisa and claim it was me wot painted it. I took some crayons and some paper and just drawed it. I did it by soaking the paper in olive oil and then put it under the grill for a bit and then so put some crayons in some sugar water to dissect the particles so it would look aged. I have a GCSE in art and sometimes I paint the odd air fix kit so my credentials as a world class painter means I can pull it off. I have no actual proof I did this but as I said it under oath it must all be true. You have enough science to crack on with there and figure it out yourselves. Be aware though I will retract this statement at a later date too.