Maybrick--a Problem in Logic

[Iconoclast]

why is thorny a pun?

Crown of thorns, old boy. A not terribly tangential reference (unintended actually) to Jesus' mooted headgear on the Cross.

[Trapperologist]

Belief is not solely the preserve of religion. Belief is also a factor of politics and ideology.

However, I can believe you are sticking to a knowledge-based approach and simply weighing the evidence. I can’t say that for everyone. Some doth protest too much, don’t you think?

[Ven]

Hey Icon,

I like that you're puting up the good fight. I agree that the Diary hasn't been totally discredited, so at this stage it cant be discounted, i believe. Just as much going for it as against it. I have no problem with pages being cut out, I've done that, and what we may consider frugal today, was normal back then... how many outdated mobiles did they discard back then!!

[Iconoclast]

Hey Icon,

I like that you're puting up the good fight. I agree that the Diary hasn't been totally discredited, so at this stage it cant be discounted, i believe. Just as much going for it as against it. I have no problem with pages being cut out, I've done that, and what we may consider frugal today, was normal back then... how many outdated mobiles did they discard back then!!

Hi Ven,

The 'good fight' itself smacks of a quasi-religious tone, but I like it nevertheless!

The scrapbook has not only not 'been totally discredited', it has grown in authenticity over the years since 1992. That should be one of our mantras in this neo-faith.

Another mantra is the issue of context, which you touch upon. We were not living in 1888 and 1889 so we should not assume the right to decide such things as whether or not an apparently prosperous Liverpool cotton merchant would have been inspired to write down his evil thoughts in an old scrapbook rather than pop down to RS McColl's (another of my many footballing references, albeit in this case another one quite anachronistic at heart) for a leather-bound, vellum 120gsm blank notebook for his nascent personal 'bible'.

It's a short one today. I'm just heading out of Whottlington on the Whottle to take young Ms. Iconoclast back to her university flat for the start of her new term tomorrow. Maybe it is time the Great Iconoclast himself wrote up his PhD? Hmmm … I wonder what subject he would choose?

Keep the Faith, young Ven - we will be triumphant and a Heaven of wall-to-wall football awaits all who support the cause! (Sky might argue we've already made it to that particular nirvana, mind. )

Ike

[Ven]

Young Ven...lol

no quasi religious... or otherwise... i like what you write but understand the other's views.

Like so many other comments on this site there is so much (dis)/information... what it is right/real, what is wrong/unreal... let's hope we all get there in the end!

Looking forward to discuss, either way, the merits or otherwise of our good mate, James/Michael ( a little disingenuous of me) Maybrick

Ven

[Ven]

You have a Ms Iconclast going to Uni.. is she a girlfriend or a daughter (and what dos she think of this whole thing?)... please explain?

[erobitha]

I never heard that explanation before, Ike, but you might be right. The idiom "one off chance" existed in that time period. I think you've just shown us another reason to accept the possible existence of "one off instance" in a Victorian "diary" entry.

We already have one as the theory that it takes 70 years for "one-off instance" to evolve from "one-off" hasn't been proven. Although logical at first sight, doesn't it forget the fact that we're talking about two worlds -- the technical and common/everyday? The first examples of "one off instance" are in the 1970s, as I recall. Where are the examples of "one-off" by itself in the same, non-technical literature?

Back to the Victorian usage: Couldn't it be a bit of both perhaps - one off-instance (like you suggest, Ike) and one-off instance?

I haven’t investigated further than a quick Google Books search but could be worth more time looking...

[erobitha]

Another...

[Iconoclast]

Another...

Hi Erobitha,

Do you have any examples in English, by any chance?

PS These do appear to be very interesting examples, though!

Cheers,

Ike

[Iconoclast]

You have a Ms Iconclast going to Uni.. is she a girlfriend or a daughter (and what dos she think of this whole thing?)... please explain?

She be a child, young Ven sir. Oo arr.

I think erobitha has a lot to answer for ...

[erobitha]

Hi Erobitha,

Do you have any examples in English, by any chance?

PS These do appear to be very interesting examples, though!

Cheers,

Ike

Ha ha - I really didn’t do much more than enter a word search in to Google Books just assumes the results would be English without taking too much notice of the other words. It might be examples of local dialects but there could be straw clutching by me here. If I find any more clear cut examples I’ll be sure to share

[erobitha]

I think erobitha has a lot to answer for ...

That doesn’t sound ominous in the slightest....

[Iconoclast]

That doesn’t sound ominous in the slightest....

Not if you consult your own comment regarding dialects …

[Graham]

Sad to say, chaps and chapesses, but it seems to me that the phrase one off in Erobitha's examples (maybe late 16th century, at a guess) more likely mean one of. Spelling in those days was attrochusse. First example, for example, we would read as: one of (as in 'made of') needle-work, and the other of lawn (a fabric made of cotton, I believe). The It' bit means 'item'. Don't think his Lordship will be gnashing his teeth and tearing out his hair just yet, but nice try. We'll get 'im yet.....

Graham

[erobitha]

Sad to say, chaps and chapesses, but it seems to me that the phrase one off in Erobitha's examples (maybe late 16th century, at a guess) more likely mean one of. Spelling in those days was attrochusse. First example, for example, we would read as: one of (as in 'made of') needle-work, and the other of lawn (a fabric made of cotton, I believe). The It' bit means 'item'. Don't think his Lordship will be gnashing his teeth and tearing out his hair just yet, but nice try. We'll get 'im yet.....

Graham

Lesson to thy self. Research a little more before posting. Thanks for taking the time to look in to it. I have a feeling something will come up I invest some real time and energy. Appreciate the patience!