Evidence of innocence

[Herlock Sholmes]

The reason he can’t call himself Fred Bloggs is completely obvious and it’s worrying that you can’t figure this out for yourself.

Plausible deniability. If you say you are called Fred Bloggs and get caught out you haven’t got a leg to stand on. You are caught in a lie - you have both lied to a coroner under oath and incriminated yourself in a murder.

Using a family name, say your step fathers name, allows you to conceal your identity but give you plausible deniability. If caught out you have a potential reason for using the name.

Peter Sutcliffe used this successfully. He called himself Peter Coonan when stopped by the police. This was his mothers maiden name.

But he wasn’t concealing anything. And that’s the whole point. Why is that people say “ah, it’s deeply suspicious that he didn’t use the name Lechmere but instead used Cross.” It’s a blatant insinuation that he’s up to something sinister; that this, in some way, points a finger at him. If it wasn’t sinister then why keep mentioning it? But the only way that it could be construed as ‘sinister’ was if it was an attempt to somehow throw the Police off the scent; to avoid being questioned further; to gain him some advantage in terms of the murder of Polly Nichols but we know that it didn’t . Why is this point a problem to you? Because it’s another mythical point in favour of Lechmere’s guilt.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Lastly, Lechmere turned up at the inquest in his work clothes, including his apron. If he had been asked to attend then why is he dressed for work ? I would suggest had he been questioned, and then summoned, he wouldn’t be wearing an apron in front a coroner and jury. His unusual attire suggests a last minute decision to attend.

Or that he believed that he might have only been there a short time in which case he could have gone back to work only losing part of a days pay rather than a full day.

[MrBarnett]

Cheers Gary.

Can we be certain that his kids would have be known as Lechmere and not Cross?

On your last point, I wasn’t aware that anyone had claimed that that by giving his address and place of work at the Inquest that numerous people would have been able to identify him to be honest. My only point would be that it wouldn’t have prevented the police from tracing him.

The school records that survive, from when they were living at James Street and Doveton Street, show they were registered as Lechmere. Then we have the death of his sister which was registered in the name of Lechmere by a neighbour back in 1869, while Thomas Cross was still alive.

And we shouldn’t forget that Lechmere and his older sister must have started school themselves as Lechmeres. They would have been 8 and 10 (from memory) when their mother married Thomas Cross. And shortly afterwards they were christened and their father’s name (John Allen Lechmere) was put on record once again.

[Mark J D]

Why can’t the police have done what the Lloyd’s reporter did to contact Paul?

Maybe because Lechmere made damn sure he didn't walk down that street for some little while...

M.

[SuperShodan]

But he wasn’t concealing anything. And that’s the whole point. Why is that people say “ah, it’s deeply suspicious that he didn’t use the name Lechmere but instead used Cross.” It’s a blatant insinuation that he’s up to something sinister; that this, in some way, points a finger at him. If it wasn’t sinister then why keep mentioning it? But the only way that it could be construed as ‘sinister’ was if it was an attempt to somehow throw the Police off the scent; to avoid being questioned further; to gain him some advantage in terms of the murder of Polly Nichols but we know that it didn’t . Why is this point a problem to you? Because it’s another mythical point in favour of Lechmere’s guilt.

This is speculation, but Lechmere using a different name might not be for the benefit of the coroner or the police. It could be for the benefit of old neighbours, or maybe even colleagues.

He recently moved away from an area he has lived all his life. He downsized and moved his large family into 4 rooms (I think).

It was the first time he had ever lived outside his mothers orbit his entire life. Did something happen that he took lodgings so far away. Did he have a local reputation as an oddball or perhaps even for a violent temper. Was he keen that former neighbours wouldn’t recognise him as the man who found Polly Nichols.

A guy called Cross from Doveton Street couldn’t be mixed up with a guy called Lechmere who recently moved away.

Just a theory, but I think the name change is a distancing technique. The guy was born Lechmere, married as Lechmere, his wife was Lechmere, his kids were Lechmere and he had Lechmere on his gravestone.

[MrBarnett]

As those of you who read my post 5612 will gather, I am retracting from debating on Casebook until further notice. Whatever contributions I make will be new finds and suchlike, and I will in such cases not go on to debate the material until I find that the debating climate out here has changed for the better.

To those who struggle on with good and sound intentions, the best of luck. The truth tends to prevail, even though much work is produced out here to hinder it.

All the best!

PS. Dusty! Now you can claim that your questions finally became so very hard to answer that I decided to leave for good! You should be happy!!

PPS. My excuses if I leave something unanswered that deserved an answer. You can always contact me with a PM if that is the case.

You will be missed, Christer.

[FrankO]

Maybe because Lechmere made damn sure he didn't walk down that street for some little while...

M.

Although I by no means say that Lechmere couldn't have made damn sure not to traverse Buck's Row on Friday night and Saturday, you have to keep up, M.

What I reacted to was:
"Furthermore, it would have been impossible for the police to contact him anyway. It couldn’t have happened. Lechmere only spoke to one Policeman, PC Mizen, and Mizen never took ANY details - not his name, address or employer. When Lechmere walked up Hanbury Street he walked into anonymity."

Bob claims it would have been impossible for the police to contact Lechmere as they didn't have his name, address or employer. I say there was a simple possibility they could try.

[SuperShodan]

Although I by no means say that Lechmere couldn't have made damn sure not to traverse Buck's Row on Friday night and Saturday, you have to keep up, M.

What I reacted to was:
"Furthermore, it would have been impossible for the police to contact him anyway. It couldn’t have happened. Lechmere only spoke to one Policeman, PC Mizen, and Mizen never took ANY details - not his name, address or employer. When Lechmere walked up Hanbury Street he walked into anonymity."

Bob claims it would have been impossible for the police to contact Lechmere as they didn't have his name, address or employer. I say there was a simple possibility they could try.

Evening Frank0

I doubt whether they would even bother looking for Lechmere. Until they established the facts on the ground I feel the police would be looking at Bucks Row residents, and people in the vicinity like the horse slaughterers etc. Lechmere was a bit part player, he was on the outer periphery. He might simply have been forgotten about as his role was apparently so minor.

[Mark J D]

... I feel the police would be looking at Bucks Row residents...

-- I thought we knew for a fact that they weren't really bothering, even after the Coroner told them that they had to...?

And then, just eight days later, there arrived a whole new set of priorities -- and a new drain on manpower...

M.

[Herlock Sholmes]

This is speculation, but Lechmere using a different name might not be for the benefit of the coroner or the police. It could be for the benefit of old neighbours, or maybe even colleagues.

He recently moved away from an area he has lived all his life. He downsized and moved his large family into 4 rooms (I think).

It was the first time he had ever lived outside his mothers orbit his entire life. Did something happen that he took lodgings so far away. Did he have a local reputation as an oddball or perhaps even for a violent temper. Was he keen that former neighbours wouldn’t recognise him as the man who found Polly Nichols.

And this isn’t speculating?

A guy called Cross from Doveton Street couldn’t be mixed up with a guy called Lechmere who recently moved away.

Just a theory, but I think the name change is a distancing technique. The guy was born Lechmere, married as Lechmere, his wife was Lechmere, his kids were Lechmere and he had Lechmere on his gravestone.

And I think the name means nothing. We’re not going to agree on this Bob.

[Trevor Marriott]

There’s no ‘clearly’ about it, Trevor. He didn’t give his real name in court and it appears nowhere in the police records. In fact, he barely gets any mention at all in them.

Then why is there no mention in any police records, or court records, that the name he gave in court was a name that was misleading to both the police and the coroner and most importantly the inquest to which he had been called as a material witness.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[drstrange169]

>>What I may do is to present new finds out here <<

In the decade or so you've been here, I can't recall you posting any verifiable new discovery. I'm happy to be corrected if anyone can name one.

Various posters have contributed snippets about Lechmere, most notable, Chris Scott and others who discovered the name difference. The bulk, by far, of information about Lechmere derives from a person using the fake name Ed Stow. All Christer has proved to date is bluster and more than the odd bit of misinformation.

[drstrange169]

>>Done and dusted?<<

Dust settled.

[drstrange169]

>>You have to wonder how a carman with 9 kids managed to keep his family up to a ‘v. decent’ standard in James Street and could afford to rent a 6-roomed house - and whether the downsizing to Doveton Street was prompted by financial necessity.<<

Necessity or a prudent saving measure to improve finances for a better financial future. Which is what it seems he did.

Glass half full/ empty scenario.

[MrBarnett]

The bulk, by far, of information about Lechmere derives from a person using the fake name Ed Stow.

Says ‘Dr Strange’.