Is Kosminski still the best suspect we have?

[pinkmoon]

Trevor

Thetre is no evdince whatsoeevr that Montague Druitt was a homosexual.

It is a modern theory treated as fact.

I agree with you that the police, or factions thereof, intiially believed that Alice McKenzie and Frances Coles were Ripper victims.

Druitt died too early, and for that matter Aaron Kosminski was sectioned too late and too early.

Hi Jonathan,I think because there was no Mrs Druitt that people have thought Druitt was a homosexual this is hardly a scientific way of deducing he was gay.My older brother (who is no way as good looking or as modest as me) didn't bother with women untill his mid thirties since then he has certainly made up for lost time and has certainly got a way with the ladies the point I'm trying to make just because someone puts a lot of effort into their career and puts in some hard work in their early years and simply hasnt got time for the fairer sex dosnt mean they are gay .It could also be that maybe Monty came to the conclusion that women aren't worth the hassle that comes with them after a bad experience.

[Trevor Marriott]

Preciaely. I was trying to ascertain whether Trevor's "close analysis" included all the available facts.

And there was me thinking it was Kosminski under scrutiny
on this thread

You are going to have to try harder than that and now i will withdraw from this thread in the knowledge that common sense coupled with superior knowledge and expertise has prevailed yet again

[PaulB]

And there was me thinking it was Kosminski under scrutiny
on this thread

You are going to have to try harder than that and now i will withdraw from this thread in the knowledge that common sense coupled with superior knowledge and expertise has prevailed yet again

I'm pleased that you admit defeat in that way, Trevor. I never thought you were man enough to do it.

Just for the record, you implied that Macnaghten knew Ostrog's whereabouts when he wrote the memorandum. Not only was Ostrog off topic, you were flat out wrong in what you said. Once again. So bye, bye.

Oh, and before I forget, knowing that you didn't have eggs and chips for lunch does not prove it to anyone. Not a soul.

[David Andersen]

So how can anyone safely believe what has been said and written by any of these officers without any corroboration.

Where does the real truth lie? Well it lies with the likes of Major Smith and James Monro who were at the top of the tree. If there was any evidence other than these assortments of un corroborated historical opinions given by MM and Anderson then they would have known, and we would have known. So those facts show that whatever these other officers thought they knew was nothing more than an uncorroborated theories or opinions.

Can you provide any evidence which shows he wasn't a homosexual?

Can you show that the reason for his dismissal wasn't as a result of impropriety with the boys?

Can you show any evidence to show the reason for his suicide

Now Jonathan please answer the questions in a simple way. We don't need to hear your "own" thoughts based on what MM may have thought or said or any others for that matter.

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Have you any evidence that Druitt WAS Homosexual? No. You don't. It is assumed that his dismissal from the school for a serious offence must be of a sexual nature. The clues are there Mr Marriot.

Druitts note was to the effect that he felt he was 'becoming like mother' and that the best thing, for him, was to die. That is the reason he committed suicide.

Druitts Mother was suicidal which is why she had been certified in July 1888. Ergo - Druitt himself was suicidal and it is just as likely to have been the reason for his dismissal from the school.

Attempted suicide was, in 1888, a 'serious offence'. So serious that it was, ironically, punishable by death.

I hope that alternative scenario is simple enough.

[GUT]

Could Montrie's failure to marry have been related to one or two other factors as well:

1. Many men are still singe in their early 30's.

2. We do not know if he had any girlfriends or not, but that applies to many people we don't have a blow to blow detailing of their lives.

3. Maybe he was very shy and had difficulty relating to women

4. Probably a part of #1 "He hadn't met Miss Right yet".

[pinkmoon]

Could Montrie's failure to marry have been related to one or two other factors as well:

1. Many men are still singe in their early 30's.

2. We do not know if he had any girlfriends or not, but that applies to many people we don't have a blow to blow detailing of their lives.

3. Maybe he was very shy and had difficulty relating to women

4. Probably a part of #1 "He hadn't met Miss Right yet".

See post 361 about my brother

[PaulB]

Have you any evidence that Druitt WAS Homosexual? No. You don't. It is assumed that his dismissal from the school for a serious offence must be of a sexual nature. The clues are there Mr Marriot.

Druitts note was to the effect that he felt he was 'becoming like mother' and that the best thing, for him, was to die. That is the reason he committed suicide.

Druitts Mother was suicidal which is why she had been certified in July 1888. Ergo - Druitt himself was suicidal and it is just as likely to have been the reason for his dismissal from the school.

Attempted suicide was, in 1888, a 'serious offence'. So serious that it was, ironically, punishable by death.

I hope that alternative scenario is simple enough.

What evidence do you have that Marriott understands and responds to sensible and reasonable argument?

[Chris]

Of course, there used to be something known as "verballing", which was sadly quite popular with elements of the British police force.

It meant that a police officer would invent something, and the onus would very much be on someone else to disprove it. If they couldn't, the police officer would have won the argument, so to speak.

[Robert]

Even if Monty was gay - and we don't know that he was - there was nothing to stop him getting married, closing his eyes and thinking of England - nothing, that is, except his teaching career, his legal career, his cricket, his hockey and any other sports that took up his time. Or maybe he was just putting it off, like a trip to the dentist.

[pinkmoon]

Even if Monty was gay - and we don't know that he was - there was nothing to stop him getting married, closing his eyes and thinking of England - nothing, that is, except his teaching career, his legal career, his cricket, his hockey and any other sports that took up his time. Or maybe he was just putting it off, like a trip to the dentist.

Evening Robert,Old Monty certainly seemed a busy chap he probably couldn't fit some pointless nagging into his busy schedule.

[PaulB]

Of course, there used to be something known as "verballing", which was sadly quite popular with elements of the British police force.

It meant that a police officer would invent something, and the onus would very much be on someone else to disprove it. If they couldn't, the police officer would have won the argument, so to speak.

That sounds a familiar tactic.

[Monty]

A cheap tactic Paul,

Often used due to lack of convincing evidence....which is also familiar.

Monty

[RockySullivan]

Even if druitt was a pedo....how likely would he be to target femaleprostitutes

[lynn cates]

Logic R Us

Hello Rob.

"Are you positive about that?"

Cute. Well, universally speaking. (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[Jonathan H]

According to fragmentary, se,i-fictionalized and limited--yet consistent --primary sources Montague Druitt was not a homosexual, nor was he sacked for any scandalous reason.

Instead the drowned barrister was believed to be sexually (or epileptically) insane and this expressed itself in a fixation to murder and then mutilate the coprses of East End prostitutes. Eventually he overdosed on post-mortem horror and took his own life.

The source from all this was his family, and they gained their knowledge from their member's own lips. It would have been relatively easy to dismiss such a confession as a delusion--yet they did not. Later their belief was backed by a member of parliament, a police chief, a clergyman and a famous writer on true crime.

They might have all been wrong, but this is, i think, unlikely and improbable.

If they were wrong, perhaps Sir Robert Anderson and Donald Swanson--both honest and dedicated public servants--had found a much more likely suspect in Aaron Kosminski or David Cohen, e.g. a local non-entity, violent, deceased, sexually dysfunctional and believed by people close to him to be guilty.

Whilst the witness identification is, I believe, a late, legendary addition it may express authentic knowledge (and authentic police frustration) by perhaps the suspect's brother about his sibling's culpability -- and his refusal to hand him over to the cops.

The Polish madman must always remain a major suspect.

I just happen to think he is not the leading suspect, but that is a matter of historical debate. The strength of the argunment, or arguments, is in the eye of the beholder.