A Case of Misattribution?

[Phil Carter]

Hello Tom.

the questions then are
Which sections of the press (think about the inventors background- and who his boss was and what newspapers were connected) and
Which policemen and When?
After Andersons white horse 'save the day' return or before?
the trouble for Anderson was that the black horse Jack the Ripper was way out of the stable door and had raced away with a gallop.
Best wishes

Phil

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Phil. But weren't the police in the press in 1888 and afterwards expressing their opinion that the letters were hoaxes?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Phil Carter]

Hello all,

Even if the slightest sniff of those invemtions came out, the police would have been made to look really stupid. The journalist himself couldnt admit hoodwinking the police with those inventions, nor anyone else either who may have known.

Anderson was the man who rode in on his white horse to save the day- NOT just quell the murder series, but the reputation of the police. The masses were being stirred up and all hell was breaking loose. NOBODY was actually seen to be in control.

If that sounds dramatic- well thats how it was. Fear, panic, and fingers of blame being pointed.

Best wishes

Phil

[Phil Carter]

Hello Tom, Abby,

Schwartz's testimony must have caused enough concern (pipeman) to have caused a decision to be made to keep his testimony back. It is Pipemans follow up prescence and testimony that incriminates, does it not? Pipeman is the unknown factor here. And by proxy an important one for Anderson. The 'word on the street'...
Im not talking Kosminski here Tom, Im talking a Polish Jew, unnamed by Anderson in Andersons book.
The points of import are in the additional paragraph in my last post. Anderson admits to the world the journalistic invention. There is no way that would have been admitted at the time or soon after, and so he HAD to keep the TWO correspondances together, keeping the double event as a fact- that way he is clear to blame the Polish Jew for ALL the killings- thereby Jack the Ripper, SINGLE evader of the police, lives on- meaning that Anderson bleats his ego and says Jack the Ripper was known and incarcerated. The police, under Anderson, have a clean reputation.

Best wishes

Phil

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Phil. But Schwartz did not witness any Jews, or at least not to our knowledge. He witnessed the very un-Jewish appearing Pipeman, and the epithet-spitting BS Man. Are you suggesting that Aaron Kosminski did not have a Jewish appearance? I would find that surprising. But I liked your idea about the letters. I can't disagree that there's many examples of the LVP London police refusing to admit error to save face.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Abby Normal]

Hello Cris, Dave, Lynn, Abby, Trevor, Simon, Greg, all,

Take the following as a given-

The letter sent to the police through the Press Agency was a Press/journalist invention.
The follow up Saucy Jack, believed to be AS GENUIne and promoted as such via the blow up posters pasted outside the police stations, equally invented.

Now in pasting those posters up, the police showed their hand. They promoted these bogus items as REAL. I am in grave doubt that they, even if they knew of any newspapermans subterfuge early after the promotion of the posters(which we dont know) would admit to being hoodwinked by a journalist and then be shown to being a lauging stock.

Therefore they HAD to stick to the idea of the Saucy Jack follow up whatever, even if they sniffed a rat early on. Thats where the double event got confirmed and the Schwartz story quelled, BEFORE the inquest.

The press were after the guts of the police. The area was in turmoil. Anarchy was in the air. Politicians involvement (Home Sec) put pressure on from above. The police were being squeezed in a sandwich. They HAD to stick by their decisions- and thats why I believe Anderson's Polish Jew Killer was referring to the Stride murderer only- as he may have been later informed that the 'word on the street' is... And later the men who refused to ID the killer was a fellow Jew from inside the ring connected to tie IWMEC.
He then just called 'Jack the Ripper'- the invented name- a Polish Jew and THAT has been taken because of Anderson's ego wording to be the killer of ALL the wonen. Case solved. Anderson righteous. Press involvement nullified

That. To me, is a realistic scenario. All bases covered.
Simon Wood is bang on- the Saucy Jack postcard nullifies Schwartz and the double event is both born and protected- because Schwartz doesnt have the official mouthpiece through the Post Mortem. Exit the one person that could show the police to be incompetant.

Best wishes

Phil

How does Schwartz nullify the double event?

[Cogidubnus]

Veracity

I think you have it backwards. There is no evidence that he was lying so until the conspiracists come up with something then you should be directing that statement to them.

Hi Abby

I've been very open in playing the devil's advocate, and trying hard to maintain an open mind...I've said as much several times...but nonetheless, according to you, if I query the honesty of a witness I ought to be asking the "Conspiracists" (whoever they are) about it...

So, by contrast, presumably if I'm inclined to trust a witness I should talk to you?..so how do you feel about Hutchinson for example, or Maxwell, or Long or whoever? Should I trust them implicitly on your unsupported say so? Or not?

No that'd be daft - and I'm sure that's not what you intended to convey - Accept it Abby, some witnesses are generally honest, some are generally not...and here we are 124 years later trying to sort the wheat from the chaff...somebody has to ask...

Do you really think a foreigner in a new country a conservative looking Jew with a family who does not even speak the language is going to place himself and his family in severe jeopardy and lie to the police in a murder case????

Adding four question marks doesn't actually reinforce the quality of your question - but he's conservative looking? I thought he was supposed to be theatrical...source please? And, by the by, as I posited earlier in the thread, his non-mastery of the English language could actually be very easily turned to advantage...

Ah a family...could you let me have details please, as it may help me make up my mind one way or the other...

Cheers

Dave

[Phil Carter]

Hello Cris, Dave, Lynn, Abby, Trevor, Simon, Greg, all,

Take the following as a given-

The letter sent to the police through the Press Agency was a Press/journalist invention.
The follow up Saucy Jack, believed to be AS GENUINE and promoted as such via the blow up posters pasted outside the police stations, equally invented.
--------------------
Now in pasting those posters up, the police showed their hand. They promoted these items as REAL. I am in grave doubt that they, even if they knew of any newspapermans subterfuge early after the promotion of the posters(which we dont know) would admit to being hoodwinked by a journalist and then be shown to being a lauging stock.

Therefore they HAD to stick to the idea of the Saucy Jack follow up whatever, even if they sniffed a rat early on. Thats where the double event got confirmed and the Schwartz story quelled, BEFORE the inquest.

The press were after the guts of the police. The area was in turmoil. Anarchy was in the air. Politicians involvement (Home Sec) put pressure on from above. The police were being squeezed in a sandwich. They HAD to stick by their decisions- and thats why I believe Anderson's Polish Jew Killer was referring to the Stride murderer only- as he may have been later informed that the 'word on the street' is... And later the men who refused to ID the killer was a fellow Jew from inside the ring connected to tie IWMEC.
He then just called 'Jack the Ripper'- the invented name- a Polish Jew and THAT has been taken because of Anderson's ego wording to be the killer of ALL the wonen. Case solved. Anderson righteous. Press involvement nullified

That. To me, is a realistic scenario. All bases covered.
Simon Wood is bang on- the Saucy Jack postcard nullifies Schwartz and the double event is both born and protected- because Schwartz doesnt have the official mouthpiece through the Post Mortem. Exit the one person that could show the police to be incompetant.

Anderson admitted that the letter etc was an invention. What he DIDNT admit was that he realised the police had been hoodwinked by it. So Jack, the Polish Jew, killed the lot, if not, then Jack didnt exist, did he?

Best wishes

Phil

[Cogidubnus]

Again, in an abstract sense, isnt a foil used to divert attention away from two main things, place and time?
Timing here being the factor I see as the main problem.

Hi Phil

If (and I stress if) Schwartz is a false witness, then time is surely only incidental to the identity of the malfactor...

Dave

[lynn cates]

Brave, brave Sir Robert

Hello (yet again) Abby. Who on earth is blaming the Jews? Have you been paying attention to Sir Robert again?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Who lied?

Hello (again) Abby. But we don't know that he was lying. Maybe only the translator was.

Cheers.
LC

[Abby Normal]

Hello Dave. Again, you have read my mind.

Impressive!

Cheers.
LC

Yeah let's blame the Jews-really impressive.

Where have I heard that before.

[lynn cates]

man for the job

Hello Phil. Thanks. I'm with you. Schwartz was perfect.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Dimshits

Hello (again) Dave. Well, yes, I think the discovery was a bit earlier. But Dimshits was not the one to tell the tale--English too good.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

back up

Hello Abby. Dimshits has no back up line like Schwartz.

Cheers.
LC