Kosminski & Schwartz

[Versa]

Hiya Wickerman

Hi Versa.
There's no mention of the expression, "Lipski" in the press report.

Personally I tend to put more faith in the police report than the press report....

Regardless, even in the police report Schwartz only walked away after hearing the 'shout'.

Yes... He left... and he obviously felt stressed enough to run because he thought the other man might be after him...

Had he perceived the term 'Lipski' as a jovial, "aright, mate" he would not of felt enough on edge to run when another man walked in his direction. He seems to have felt threatened IMO.

Probably the racial slur on its own wouldnt of caused a grown man to run of on its own but he was on edge enough after the slur to run when he thought he was being followed....

[miakaal4]

From what I have read of this incident it seems to me that Kominski, who was a bit mad, was having a go at Liz, perhaps because of what she was, and he pushed her over. She gave three little screams; "Ow, ow ow!" the Pipeman who has his own interest in Stride shouted "Lipski" at Kominski who took fright and ran off behind the fleeing Schwarts? When Schwarts was asked to I.D. whp he saw, he knew it was Kominski, another Jew, and baulked. What I really cannot believe is that the police would let an immigrant Jew tell them he will not testify and they say, "Oh, okay mate, that's a shame" and place a watch on K, just for jolly. The Pipeman could have been the killer, and Schwarts would therefore not be pressed by police, if he were only witnessing a mild assault?

[Wickerman]

From what I have read of this incident it seems to me that Kominski, who was a bit mad, was having a go at Liz, ......

What makes you think the aggressor was Kosminski?

Regards, Jon S.

[Phil H]

Are we sure that was what heard said (if anything) was "Lizzie!!"

The victim's name?

Phil H

[moonbegger]

Is it beyond the realms of possibility that it was Stride who yelled out Lipski , as a derogatory term towards the man attacking her .. Pipe man hears her, see's Schwartz walking back towards her .. assumes he is the one who stride is having a grievance with , decides to help out by chasing him off . Unfortunately he chases off the wrong man ! He walks back , but all is quiet , assuming Stride left the scene , Pipeman goes about his business .

Or just maybe , one of the two men were actually named Lipski !

moonbegger

[Stephen Lee]

Is it beyond the realms of possibility that it was Stride who yelled out Lipski , as a derogatory term towards the man attacking her .. Pipe man hears her, see's Schwartz walking back towards her .. assumes he is the one who stride is having a grievance with , decides to help out by chasing him off . Unfortunately he chases off the wrong man ! He walks back , but all is quiet , assuming Stride left the scene , Pipeman goes about his business .

Or just maybe , one of the two men were actually named Lipski !

moonbegger

It was probably the killer that shouted Lipski. I'm not realy a Kosminski believer, however this has to be cleaned up.
Has anyone checked records for 1890-91 for when Koz theatened his sister? I'd guess when that happened.
I'm an economist, we always say 'on the one hand this, on the other that.' But Kosminski shouldn't be too much of a problem if we can find find records of that assault on his sister.

Can it be that he was flashing/masturbating, threatening someone wirh a knife, looked insane, that was enough to warrent an ID from Schwartz/Lawende?
It was more than enough for Cutbush to be accused. I think Koz is the best we have, but he's far from perfect, I have lots of doubts.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Is it beyond the realms of possibility that it was Stride who yelled out Lipski , as a derogatory term towards the man attacking her ..

It is if you think Schwartz had the ability to distinguish between a man's voice and a woman's voice, and between a British accent and a Swedish accent.

Or just maybe , one of the two men were actually named Lipski !

moonbegger

The police did actually try to trace every Lipski in the area and none matched Pipe Man.

Can it be that he was flashing/masturbating, threatening someone wirh a knife, looked insane, that was enough to warrent an ID from Schwartz/Lawende?

Why would Schwartz or Lawende have expected their suspects to look insane?