change in modus operandi

[Natalie Severn]

The Wardlaw sisters burned a man to death then later "de-escalated" to killing another with poison.

Thanks for that information Stan.Serial killing of itself is a very very rare type of killing but I must say that those I have read about who have taken a long time to catch seem to do it compulsively and often.For two sisters to be at it together is interesting.Must look their deeds up Stan.Fisherman"s point is a valid one here.Was it just that they were being opportunistic?
Best
Norma

[Fisherman]

Stan writes:

"The Wardlaw sisters burned a man to death then later "de-escalated" to killing another with poison."

Can it be argued that either method was something they used because they felt compelled to do so? Did they respond to a probable urge of seeing somebody die by way of fire - or poison?

Or did the methods just come in handy to kill?

The best,
Fisherman

[sdreid]

The Wardlaw sisters burned a man to death then later "de-escalated" to killing another with poison.

[Natalie Severn]

There has been speculation that Klosowski dyed his hair. As a barber he probably knew about coloring hair. I don't know how widespread dying hair was in 1888, but the jtr witnesses, however reliable or unreliable describe the hair color differently.

I'm convinced that the ripper was legally sane and most likely a resident of Whitechapel. All this poppycock about a psychotic, raving mad ripper is nonsense as well as the freemason and royal conspiracy rants. Unfortunately ripper cult fiction makes much more money than the grim facts of the case do.

Hi Anna,
I came across a very interesting link from Le Figaro about various artists and writers living in Paris in the second half of the 19th century. It is from an"avant et apres" thread they have done showing Paris before and after Haussman.They refer to Balzac slumming it for a while in a certain section of Paris in order to write Pere Goriot -who in the book was made to "slum it" by his daughters.They discuss Dickens and his attempts to describe poverty in London and make the comment that Emile Zola, who lived in the East End in the early 1890"s, considered that the East End was not slummy at all but actually mostly very thriving and prosperous ,especially its central areas and that the only parts of it that compared in any way with the area around Les Gobelins ,pre Haussmann, were the slum alleys and courts tucked away and largely out of sight.I have seen this written about before by George Sims who said much the same thing about Whitechapel High Street.Even a large meeting of the residents of Dorset Street took issue with the bias of the middle class reporter who had spoken very badly of it in the press.
Clearly there were the most appalling slums in Whitechapel in 1888,but it is possible that like areas of London,they were only small pockets of them,as exist now in certain areas,the rest comparing favourably with many parts of London.Emile Zola commented that areas around Covent Garden in the West End and Southwark were much more pervasively slummy.

Anyway,clearly there were parts of Whitechapel that were perfectly safe and compared for very well in terms of safety with a number of places in London.
Anyway,I get the drift of your post Anna and tend to agree.

[lynn cates]

dye

Hello Anna. I wonder whether his friends/acquaintances would notice the dye or else the traces if removed?

The best.
LC

[miss_anna]

Anna,Lynn,Sam,

He seems to have kept reinventing himself.Photographed with his very young bride of 18 years,Maud Marsh,he looks about 30 when he was nearing 40.Maybe Maud was his elixir of youth and having achieved it for himself poor Maud could be dispensed with.He looks like a man of 50 or 60 sitting there with Bessie Taylor who was old enough to have been Maud"s mum.Bessie though,despite looking a bit mumsy was an expert cyclist and together she and Chapman "raced the wind" as a romantic duo during the heady days when they first became an item!Wolff Levisohn maintained he never changed a bit from when he had first met him soon after he arrived in the UK.

There has been speculation that Klosowski dyed his hair. As a barber he probably knew about coloring hair. I don't know how widespread dying hair was in 1888, but the jtr witnesses, however reliable or unreliable describe the hair color differently.

I'm convinced that the ripper was legally sane and most likely a resident of Whitechapel. All this poppycock about a psychotic, raving mad ripper is nonsense as well as the freemason and royal conspiracy rants. Unfortunately ripper cult fiction makes much more money than the grim facts of the case do.

[miss_anna]

Anna,
I do agree that Tumblety can give the impression of being more sinned against than sinning but in point of fact he was a ruthless b who duped people with his "herbal cures" and seems to have even poisoned one person with them.I dont trust a word he says in that interview.It may be the truth but its just as likely not to have been.He was a distinctly odd character and left a trail of chaos wherever he went.
Nx

People still buy and believe in crackpot herbal cures. The speculation that Tumblety was the "Batty Street Lodger" is nonsense. The police surely would have discovered that after they arrested him and charged him in the Marlborough Street police station, which is in the far west end of London near Hyde Park. I don't believe Tumblety was ever in Whitechapel after sundown. It was just too dangerous there.

[Natalie Severn]

Anna,
I do agree that Tumblety can give the impression of being more sinned against than sinning but in point of fact he was a ruthless b who duped people with his "herbal cures" and seems to have even poisoned one person with them.I dont trust a word he says in that interview.It may be the truth but its just as likely not to have been.He was a distinctly odd character and left a trail of chaos wherever he went.
Nx

[Natalie Severn]

Anna,Lynn,Sam,

He seems to have kept reinventing himself.Photographed with his very young bride of 18 years,Maud Marsh,he looks about 30 when he was nearing 40.Maybe Maud was his elixir of youth and having achieved it for himself poor Maud could be dispensed with.He looks like a man of 50 or 60 sitting there with Bessie Taylor who was old enough to have been Maud"s mum.Bessie though,despite looking a bit mumsy was an expert cyclist and together she and Chapman "raced the wind" as a romantic duo during the heady days when they first became an item!Wolff Levisohn maintained he never changed a bit from when he had first met him soon after he arrived in the UK.

[Sam Flynn]

Well Lynn, with the average life span in Whitechapel being 30 years on the average i imagine people had to grow up fast and looked older then they were.

The good news is that Klosowski didn't look older than he was, Anna - at least not by 1880s/1890s standards.

[lynn cates]

SK

Hello Ana. Agreed. Of course, SK did his growing up in Poland.

The best.
LC

[miss_anna]

Hello Sam. I was keying on the photograph of him with his wife. There he looks considerably old (closer to my age).

Acne in 1888? Quite possible. But I daresay it was nothing compared to Aaron Kosminski's. (And don't get me started on the hairy red palms.)

The best.
LC

Well Lynn, with the average life span in Whitechapel being 30 years on the average i imagine people had to grow up fast and looked older then they were.

[miss_anna]

Hi Anna,
Well what you say is all correct but there are curious matters that may connect Tumblety with the case.For example Roger Palmer only recently discovered a Newspaper interview with Tumblety-you probably know about this-where he admitted being in Whitechapel during the murders.Not only that,the American press,for what reason we are not sure,actually named him as Jack the Ripper---or rather being thought to be JtR -in 1888.He is the only suspect to have been so named at the time.
Like Thomas Cutbush who was named/as good as-- in 1894 by the British Press in The Sun Newspaper-----I believe both Tumblety and Cutbush are still very strong suspects----they have to be discounted properly,as does Chapman/Klosowski.For all the "discounting" that goes on I have yet to see a a reason ,other than by convention or prejudice why Chapman could NOT have been Jack the Ripper.
But there have been several very thoughtful articles that I know of which tackle the viabilty of Tumblety .Very few ,if any, that consider the full circumstances that would, once and for all, allow Cutbush to be discounted and in my view none about Chapman other than people being stuck fast with an objection about the question of his Modus Operandi.
Best Anna
Norma

Hi Natalie!
I see you're right about Tumblety having visited Whitechapel after his arrest. Looks like he wanted to go on a jtr tour himself.

http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/rip-tumblety-talks.html

Tumblety was never open about his homosexuality, which was considered criminal in that era. He seemed to play up the nonsense about him being a ripper suspect to divert attention from that.

I posted a thread here on Tumblety. http://forum.casebook.org/showthread...293#post105293

I'm not familar with Cutbush, but will take a look.

As of now i think Bury is next to Chapman the second most viable known jtr suspect.

[Sam Flynn]

Hello Sam. I was keying on the photograph of him with his wife. There he looks considerably old (closer to my age).

Like I say, Lynn, people looked "older" back then - but only to our eyes. I shouldn't be surprised if Bessie Taylor would sometimes dust that photograph on the mantelpiece, reflecting how lucky she was to have bagged such a handsome young husband.

[lynn cates]

old age

Hello Sam. I was keying on the photograph of him with his wife. There he looks considerably old (closer to my age).

Acne in 1888? Quite possible. But I daresay it was nothing compared to Aaron Kosminski's. (And don't get me started on the hairy red palms.)

The best.
LC