change in modus operandi

[Natalie Severn]

Adobe? Thanks Anna that explains it.If not this weekend when I might be too busy then next,I am going to try to arrange for Adobe to be installed so I can get You Tube.
I read the thread link Anna thanks.Tumblety would not be too old at 55 to murder,but to begin as a serial killer is certainly stretching it a bit.However there are one or two accounts of how he had "dressed the wounded"on the battlefield in the Civil War.How true they are is anybody"s guess but doing this type of on the field surgery would fit in with his claims to have worked as a kind of apprentice to a surgeon in Rochester and then having set himself up as an authority on health foods and cures for ailments.I actually believe he was some kind of spy regarding Irish American politics but for which side is anybody"s guess!I doubt he was Jack the Ripper.Maybe he and Chapman did a deal over buying and selling organs?Chapman did the extractions while 5 ft 11 inch Tumblety kept guard and smoked his clay pipe?
Cheers Anna

Norma

[miss_anna]

The whole Tumblety case is based on Constable Littlechild's letter and biased opinion towards homosexuals. Tumblety probably never lodged in Whitechapel or even set foot there. He was screwy though. I don't think the Irish or any 3rd party would rely on this homosexual party animal for anything.

Klosowski/Chapman is clearly a remorseless murderer and serial killer, which sets him apart from the other suspects. There have been other serial killers, who changed their modus operandi and choice of victims. The Boston strangler downgraded his serial murders to serial rapes, letting the victim live. Kemper murdered female hitchhickers and later murdered his own mother in a very different manner.

[Natalie Severn]

The whole Tumblety case is based on Constable Littlechild's letter and biased opinion towards homosexuals. Tumblety probably never lodged in Whitechapel or even set foot there. He was screwy though. I don't think the Irish or any 3rd party would rely on this homosexual party animal for anything.

Klosowski/Chapman is clearly a remorseless murderer and serial killer, which sets him apart from the other suspects. There have been other serial killers, who changed their modus operandi and choice of victims. The Boston strangler downgraded his serial murders to serial rapes, letting the victim live. Kemper murdered female hitchhickers and later murdered his own mother in a very different manner.

Hi Anna,
Well what you say is all correct but there are curious matters that may connect Tumblety with the case.For example Roger Palmer only recently discovered a Newspaper interview with Tumblety-you probably know about this-where he admitted being in Whitechapel during the murders.Not only that,the American press,for what reason we are not sure,actually named him as Jack the Ripper---or rather being thought to be JtR -in 1888.He is the only suspect to have been so named at the time.
Like Thomas Cutbush who was named/as good as-- in 1894 by the British Press in The Sun Newspaper-----I believe both Tumblety and Cutbush are still very strong suspects----they have to be discounted properly,as does Chapman/Klosowski.For all the "discounting" that goes on I have yet to see a a reason ,other than by convention or prejudice why Chapman could NOT have been Jack the Ripper.
But there have been several very thoughtful articles that I know of which tackle the viabilty of Tumblety .Very few ,if any, that consider the full circumstances that would, once and for all, allow Cutbush to be discounted and in my view none about Chapman other than people being stuck fast with an objection about the question of his Modus Operandi.
Best Anna
Norma

[lynn cates]

age

Hello Natalie. Besides the MO change, there seems a slight disparity in age--almost 23 as opposed to the 28 or thereabouts as so often suggested. Of course, age description is a very tenuous matter and SK looked quite a bit older than he actually was.

The best.
LC

[Sam Flynn]

age description is a very tenuous matter and SK looked quite a bit older than he actually was.

How do we know that, Lynn? For one thing, the photographs don't suggest that he looked particularly older than his years in the late 1890s (we're talking about the Late Victorian era here, remember, when "young" men looked and dressed "old" to our eyes), and we really haven't a clue as to whether he did in 1888. He might have been clean-shaven, festooned in acne and as thin as a stick back then, for all we know.

[lynn cates]

old age

Hello Sam. I was keying on the photograph of him with his wife. There he looks considerably old (closer to my age).

Acne in 1888? Quite possible. But I daresay it was nothing compared to Aaron Kosminski's. (And don't get me started on the hairy red palms.)

The best.
LC

[Sam Flynn]

Hello Sam. I was keying on the photograph of him with his wife. There he looks considerably old (closer to my age).

Like I say, Lynn, people looked "older" back then - but only to our eyes. I shouldn't be surprised if Bessie Taylor would sometimes dust that photograph on the mantelpiece, reflecting how lucky she was to have bagged such a handsome young husband.

[miss_anna]

Hi Anna,
Well what you say is all correct but there are curious matters that may connect Tumblety with the case.For example Roger Palmer only recently discovered a Newspaper interview with Tumblety-you probably know about this-where he admitted being in Whitechapel during the murders.Not only that,the American press,for what reason we are not sure,actually named him as Jack the Ripper---or rather being thought to be JtR -in 1888.He is the only suspect to have been so named at the time.
Like Thomas Cutbush who was named/as good as-- in 1894 by the British Press in The Sun Newspaper-----I believe both Tumblety and Cutbush are still very strong suspects----they have to be discounted properly,as does Chapman/Klosowski.For all the "discounting" that goes on I have yet to see a a reason ,other than by convention or prejudice why Chapman could NOT have been Jack the Ripper.
But there have been several very thoughtful articles that I know of which tackle the viabilty of Tumblety .Very few ,if any, that consider the full circumstances that would, once and for all, allow Cutbush to be discounted and in my view none about Chapman other than people being stuck fast with an objection about the question of his Modus Operandi.
Best Anna
Norma

Hi Natalie!
I see you're right about Tumblety having visited Whitechapel after his arrest. Looks like he wanted to go on a jtr tour himself.

http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/rip-tumblety-talks.html

Tumblety was never open about his homosexuality, which was considered criminal in that era. He seemed to play up the nonsense about him being a ripper suspect to divert attention from that.

I posted a thread here on Tumblety. http://forum.casebook.org/showthread...293#post105293

I'm not familar with Cutbush, but will take a look.

As of now i think Bury is next to Chapman the second most viable known jtr suspect.

[miss_anna]

Hello Sam. I was keying on the photograph of him with his wife. There he looks considerably old (closer to my age).

Acne in 1888? Quite possible. But I daresay it was nothing compared to Aaron Kosminski's. (And don't get me started on the hairy red palms.)

The best.
LC

Well Lynn, with the average life span in Whitechapel being 30 years on the average i imagine people had to grow up fast and looked older then they were.

[lynn cates]

SK

Hello Ana. Agreed. Of course, SK did his growing up in Poland.

The best.
LC

[Sam Flynn]

Well Lynn, with the average life span in Whitechapel being 30 years on the average i imagine people had to grow up fast and looked older then they were.

The good news is that Klosowski didn't look older than he was, Anna - at least not by 1880s/1890s standards.

[Natalie Severn]

Anna,Lynn,Sam,

He seems to have kept reinventing himself.Photographed with his very young bride of 18 years,Maud Marsh,he looks about 30 when he was nearing 40.Maybe Maud was his elixir of youth and having achieved it for himself poor Maud could be dispensed with.He looks like a man of 50 or 60 sitting there with Bessie Taylor who was old enough to have been Maud"s mum.Bessie though,despite looking a bit mumsy was an expert cyclist and together she and Chapman "raced the wind" as a romantic duo during the heady days when they first became an item!Wolff Levisohn maintained he never changed a bit from when he had first met him soon after he arrived in the UK.

[Natalie Severn]

Anna,
I do agree that Tumblety can give the impression of being more sinned against than sinning but in point of fact he was a ruthless b who duped people with his "herbal cures" and seems to have even poisoned one person with them.I dont trust a word he says in that interview.It may be the truth but its just as likely not to have been.He was a distinctly odd character and left a trail of chaos wherever he went.
Nx

[miss_anna]

Anna,
I do agree that Tumblety can give the impression of being more sinned against than sinning but in point of fact he was a ruthless b who duped people with his "herbal cures" and seems to have even poisoned one person with them.I dont trust a word he says in that interview.It may be the truth but its just as likely not to have been.He was a distinctly odd character and left a trail of chaos wherever he went.
Nx

People still buy and believe in crackpot herbal cures. The speculation that Tumblety was the "Batty Street Lodger" is nonsense. The police surely would have discovered that after they arrested him and charged him in the Marlborough Street police station, which is in the far west end of London near Hyde Park. I don't believe Tumblety was ever in Whitechapel after sundown. It was just too dangerous there.

[miss_anna]

Anna,Lynn,Sam,

He seems to have kept reinventing himself.Photographed with his very young bride of 18 years,Maud Marsh,he looks about 30 when he was nearing 40.Maybe Maud was his elixir of youth and having achieved it for himself poor Maud could be dispensed with.He looks like a man of 50 or 60 sitting there with Bessie Taylor who was old enough to have been Maud"s mum.Bessie though,despite looking a bit mumsy was an expert cyclist and together she and Chapman "raced the wind" as a romantic duo during the heady days when they first became an item!Wolff Levisohn maintained he never changed a bit from when he had first met him soon after he arrived in the UK.

There has been speculation that Klosowski dyed his hair. As a barber he probably knew about coloring hair. I don't know how widespread dying hair was in 1888, but the jtr witnesses, however reliable or unreliable describe the hair color differently.

I'm convinced that the ripper was legally sane and most likely a resident of Whitechapel. All this poppycock about a psychotic, raving mad ripper is nonsense as well as the freemason and royal conspiracy rants. Unfortunately ripper cult fiction makes much more money than the grim facts of the case do.