change in modus operandi

[Natalie Severn]

Hello Nats,

Which part, about him not wanting to get caught or that it is only my personal opinon?

Hi Corey-----both parts

[corey123]

Hello Nats,

Which part, about him not wanting to get caught or that it is only my personal opinon?

[Natalie Severn]

Hello Leslie,

Well I don't know if it wasn't luck but I know for a fact that Jack the Ripper didn't want to be caught. Take out the fact part and you have my personal opinion

Yes,I agree.

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Macknnc,
I am sure its true to say Klosowski aka Chapman didn"t " want to get caught ", but he certainly appears to have taken risks---sometimes making stupid jokes to his "wive"s" friends ---like Bessie"s anxious friend,Mrs Painter ,who called daily to see her ,saying that Bessie was already dead ---[while he was all the while poisoning her]--and when she went up to see her finding her still alive .At the end finally telling her friend that she was "much about the same" when she had actually been lying dead since the previous day.[Sugden]
Not long after Bessie"s death on 7th February 1901, when he had managed to bury her without arousing suspicion, he was single again for several months ---its a pity the police didnt look in the Thames or at least dig up his garden and take a look under the floor boards to see if there were any other victims.Today they would--- they are doing so with serial killer Tobin even going back to the 1960"s.So a search at least of his batchelor days in 1888 around the time he entered his address in the East End Post Office Directories as 126 Cable Street .
By August 1901 he had found a victim in a newly appointed barmaid in his pub, 18 year old Maud Marsh, who he was ready to dispose of by August the following year.He began more amorous shenanigans with another newly appointed barmaid in his pub in Southwark but when she reminded him he had a wife,Chapman snapped his fingers at her and said,"Oh,I"d give her that and she would be no more "Mrs Chapman"!
So here,are two examples -and Maud"s sister and mother gave other examples of similar incriminating remarks he made .Not really the safest thing to do to avoid arousing suspicion I wouldn"t have thought.

Norma

[corey123]

Hello Leslie,

Well I don't know if it wasn't luck but I know for a fact that Jack the Ripper didn't want to be caught. Take out the fact part and you have my personal opinion

[Rubyretro]

Hello Mac,

No I think it mattered quite a bit.

I agree with you, Corey -there are some people that think that it was only luck that JtR wasn't caught -I think that (whilst taking provocative, and 'thrilling', risks) -he made damned sure that he wasn't.

[corey123]

Hello Mac,

No I think it mattered quite a bit.

[macknnc]

oh I am quite sure neither of them wanted to be caught...I just think it mattered less to the Ripper...

[c.d.]

Hi Mack,

Chapman didn't want to get caught. Neither did Jack. Otherwise the police would have arrived on the scene to see him happily cutting away completely oblivious to the fact that he would soon be hanged.

c.d.

[macknnc]

The ONE thing; the major reason I have always discounted Chapman as the Ripper is:

Yes murders do change modus oprandi: knife today, poison tomorrow..okay fine...but Chapman's known murders, the ones for which he was hanged are murders which he tried to conceal. He wanted people to think his 'wives' had died of natural causes...

The Ripper hid nothing..his killings were the Victorian equilvent of putting up a neon-lit billboard and shouting "Look at what I did!" Did he want to be caught? Well you are not going to catch me getting into that...but did he make any attempt to conceal his crimes? None whatsoever.

I guess a lot of this goes back to my "reading" of the crimes and of the Ripper...Chapman wanted to get away with it...the Ripper apparently didn't care...for him, the crimes were not a means to an end, but the end itself.

[Natalie Severn]

Stan,
Thanks for that really useful info about Lizzie Borden.
Norma

[Natalie Severn]

The problem is that we don't know that Klosowski tried to obtain poison in 1888 at all. It never ceases to amaze me how authors' errors, assumptions and wishful thinking can so readily mutate into "fact".

Sam,
As I have pointed out before ,Wolff Levisohn was an important witness at Klosowski"s 1903 trial for murder, viz he was a Polish compatriot, and had stated to the court that he had known Klososowki in 1888 when he was a traveller in hairdressing goods and Klosowski/Chapman was working in a basement barber shop at the White Hart Public House [on the corner of George Yard] in Whitechapel. Levisohn added, when cross questioned in court, that he had been asked by Klosowski -in 1888 soon after he met him that is----if "he could obtain a certain substance for him " which Levisohn said he refused to do,"because it could have got me twelve years"----this sounds very much like he had made a request either for an illegal substance able to bring an abortion/death of a foetus or an illegal substance able to bring about death of a person.Levisohn,like Klosowski had been trained as a Fledscher or assistant surgeon in Po0land andhad worked as an army surgeon before coming to England.He ,like Klosowski/Chapman would have therefore been likely to be familiar with drugs and known the properties of poisons and medicines.

Best

Norma

[sdreid]

Lizzie Borden tried to obtain poison in 1892 and then opted for a hatchet job when that was not forthcoming.

[Sam Flynn]

I'm sure this podcast, which shows that Klosowski apparently unsuccessfully tried to obtain poison in 1888 has been discussed elsewhere.

http://www.casebook.org/podcast/listen.html?id=88

It takes over an hour to listen through and i was wondering, if anyone
knows of a link that discusses Klosowski's failed attempt to obtain poison?

The problem is that we don't know that Klosowski tried to obtain poison in 1888 at all. It never ceases to amaze me how authors' errors, assumptions and wishful thinking can so readily mutate into "fact".

[miss_anna]

The Wardlaw sisters burned a man to death then later "de-escalated" to killing another with poison.

The Boston Strangler started with rape + murder and then later "de-escalated" to just rape. The co-ed serial killer Edmund Kemper suddenly changed his choice of victims radically, when he murdered his mother.
Serial killers are rare as Natalie confirms! They are also usually copy killers, who got the idea from another serial killer.

I'm sure this podcast, which shows that Klosowski apparently unsuccessfully tried to obtain poison in 1988 has been discussed elsewhere.

http://www.casebook.org/podcast/listen.html?id=88

It takes over an hour to listen through and i was wondering, if anyone
knows of a link that discusses Klosowski's failed attempt to obtain poison?