Why Didn't the Police Have Schwartz and/or Lawende Take a Look at Hutchinson?

[Batman]

Probably Romford Arms pub, no?

[MrBarnett]

There is a discrepancy, yes - but given how few men they had to choose from, I think that what Dew means is what he says: IF Blotchy ever existed, then he is the best bet as far as Dew is concerned.
Nota bene in this context that if Hutchinsons man ALSO existed, then how on earth could Blotchy be a better bid...?
I´ll explain how it works: because Dew accepts - like the rest of the police as per the Echo article Jon posted - that Astrakhan man was very real and that Hutchinson (who he deemed totally honest) had seen him. But NOT on the murder night!

Here’s Dews faulty logic:

Hutchinson reported that MJK had been drinking on the night he saw her. When Maxwell saw her, she had a hangover. According to Dew, Kelly had been drinking on the night before she was murdered - which she was not used to doing - so Hutchinson’s drunk Kelly is the baby thrown out with the Maxwell Bathwater.

[MrBarnett]

Probably Romford Arms pub, no?

No, because he is reported as saying Romford in Essex.

[MrBarnett]

Duplicate post.

[MrBarnett]

Here’s Dew on Maxwell’s evidence:

In one way at least her version fitted into the facts as known. We knew that Marie had been drinking the previous night, and, as this was not a habit of hers, illness the next morning was just what might have been expected.

Several other witnesses mention Kelly’s occasional bouts of drunkenness, so Dew made a howler there - particularly if he used her supposed unfamiliarity with drink to dismiss both Maxwell and Hutch, and by default to pin the crime on blotchy.

Howlers don’t come more howly than that.

[Batman]

No, because he is reported as saying Romford in Essex.

Ah ok, thanks.

[Batman]

Hi batman and sam
I dont think they were the same person either.

But i do beleive they were both staying at the victoria home. As was barnetts brother, so hutch may have known both or at least heard about mary, her murder and or inquest news from them.

A hypothesis could go something like this.

MJK is the link to most/all the victims. They stayed in the shed (let's just say for now!) at the front of Miller's court. That's how they know her. She invited them to stay in her room from time to time, but not as a group.

Barnett was kicked out of Miller's court by MJK, not MJK out of Miller's court, which maybe indicates that she was in charge and so likely had some women back when Barnett was even there.

Flemming knew about these activities. Met some of the women and would ask them about MJK. That is how he came to know them. He hated them for bringing her down but would put on a fake smile to learn more from them.

Flemming goes nuts (actually seems to have finished his life that way) and murders those women for turning his ex-fiancee into a tramp. Eventually, he ends with MJK after Barnett has left and destroyed her completely because she destroyed herself.

This type of hypothesis would make JtR a revenge murderer and not just any old revenge but crimes of passion.

[MrBarnett]

A hypothesis could go something like this.

MJK is the link to most/all the victims. They stayed in the shed (let's just say for now!) at the front of Miller's court. That's how they know her. She invited them to stay in her room from time to time, but not as a group.

Barnett was kicked out of Miller's court by MJK, not MJK out of Miller's court, which maybe indicates that she was in charge and so likely had some women back when Barnett was even there.

Flemming knew about these activities. Met some of the women and would ask them about MJK. That is how he came to know them. He hated them for bringing her down but would put on a fake smile to learn more from them.

Flemming goes nuts (actually seems to have finished his life that way) and murders those women for turning his ex-fiancee into a tramp. Eventually, he ends with MJK after Barnett has left and destroyed her completely because she destroyed herself.

This type of hypothesis would make JtR a revenge murderer and not just any old revenge but crimes of passion.

But Kelly had been a career prostitute for years, working out of brothels and operating in Wales, the West End, the Ratcliffe Highway and France it would seem. The other 4 were casuals. Polly had only been in the East End for a few weeks, how on earth could anyone imagine she had led MJK astray?

[Batman]

But Kelly had been a career prostitute for years, working out of brothels and operating in Wales, the West End, the Ratcliffe Highway and France it would seem. The other 4 were casuals. Polly had only been in the East End for a few weeks, how on earth could anyone imagine she had led MJK astray?

She lied to him maybe? Hence why her background a semi-mystery.

[MrBarnett]

She lied to him maybe? Hence why her background a semi-mystery.

The Ratcliffe Highway period was corroborated, as was the West End episode.

Are you saying that Kelly lied to Barnett, made up a complicated back story about herself being a prostitute that she didn’t spin to Flemming? She told him ‘I’m a good girl, I am!’, and he believed it?

[Darryl Kenyon]

If Hutch did get the dates wrong we are still left with the problems of believing his over-elaborate description, eyelashes and all. His waiting until after the inquest to come forward, plus the fact that you would almost certainly have heard within a few hours [if you were in Whitechapel] about the events in Miller's court. And let's say, for argument's sake that he didn't think the murder occurred [at first], until later in the morning [Maxwell], he would surely remember that he had seen Mary that night, surly looking Gentleman, followed them etc. But to me, the main reason I don't believe he mixed the evenings up is, would someone who was pertaining to obvious wealth be wandering a dangerous area of Whitechapel at night [bag in hand, easily snatchable, gold chain], go down a notorious street and be led into a darkened court by a prostitute whilst all the time being followed by a man she had spoken to who could easily be her accomplice.

[Batman]

The Ratcliffe Highway period was corroborated, as was the West End episode.

Are you saying that Kelly lied to Barnett, made up a complicated back story about herself being a prostitute that she didn’t spin to Flemming? She told him ‘I’m a good girl, I am!’, and he believed it?

No, it seems more likely that she lied to Flemming and not Barnett who seems to be there enjoying hookers coming around to stay until he gets kicked out.

Also in the hypothesis, Flemming is finding out all this stuff from his victims.

Also, Flemming seems to be mentally unbalanced.

[MrBarnett]

No, it seems more likely that she lied to Flemming and not Barnett who seems to be there enjoying hookers coming around to stay until he gets kicked out.

Also in the hypothesis, Flemming is finding out all this stuff from his victims.

Also, Flemming seems to be mentally unbalanced.

In this hypothesis, what kind of life was she leading when she met Flemming?

[Batman]

In this hypothesis, what kind of life was she leading when she met Flemming?

Barnett makes this claim...

THE RATCLIFF HIGHWAY,
... Then she went to Pennington-street, I believe, and lived in a bad house there. In connection with that house she mentioned the name of Joseph Flemming, a mason's plasterer, of whom she said she was very fond. He used to often visit her. I picked up with her in Commercial-street one night when we had a drink together, and I made arrangements to see her on the following day, which was a Saturday. We then agreed to live together, and I took lodgings in a place in George-street, not far from where the George-yard murder was committed. I then lived with her up to when I left her, just recently.

[Sam Flynn]

MJK is the link to most/all the victims.

No, she isn't. She's barely even the link to Mary Jane Kelly.

They stayed in the shed (let's just say for now!) at the front of Miller's court. That's how they know her. She invited them to stay in her room from time to time, but not as a group.

No, let's not say, even for now, that they stayed in the shed. There is one, probably spurious, report of one other victim crashing out in a shed off Dorset Street, and that was probably just a shed. There is no evidence whatsoever that any of the other victims, or anyone else, crashed out in McCarthy's colloquially-named "shed", which was not a shed at all, but the front room of #26.