Why Didn't the Police Have Schwartz and/or Lawende Take a Look at Hutchinson?

[Fisherman]

Minor or not - and it certainly is minor compared to his other howlers - it shows that Dew's memoirs can't be taken literally.

I´m getting curious. Can you list the many howlers, please, so that we all may see what you are talking about?

[MrBarnett]

So you think he just got the day wrong?

No.

I was just providing an example, albeit a small one, of an error in Dew’s memoirs.

[Batman]

I don´t think that A man was the assailant at all. I don´t think that prior arrangements had been done between the two. I don´t think they knew each other beforehand. I don´t agree that there were only " a little higher standing" prostitutes to use for prey in Whitechapel after Eddowes.
Otherwise, we´re in total agreement - Jack would hardly stalk the streets in A mans attire.

Kelly bringing a complete stranger back to her room during the height of the Whitechapel murders requires an explanation. Especially given several of the murdered women would have been somewhat local. Even Eddowes gives me pause to think JtR knew them or at the very least knew the spot where he was going. Then there are the descriptions of him out there and awareness of a serial killer at large. I don't think I fully buy the idea that JtR was a completely opportunistic murderer.

For example, if he need not go indoors to strike with Kelly, then how come Kelly seems to be the official end of the series? Why is he not back to repeating Eddowes and Chapman elsewhere outdoors?

There is a way too much confidence shown by Eddowes and Kelly in their assailant. Eddowes went with him to that corner of Mitre Sq. Kelly brought him home.

Eddowes snatched walking through the square and Kelly's room intruded upon seems to have more explanatory power than them taking this person to these places at the height of the ripper scare.

Also, how could the ripper dress the same as the description doing the rounds and get away with it for Kelly?

[Abby Normal]

Kelly bringing a complete stranger back to her room during the height of the Whitechapel murders requires an explanation. Especially given several of the murdered women would have been somewhat local. Even Eddowes gives me pause to think JtR knew them or at the very least knew the spot where he was going. Then there are the descriptions of him out there and awareness of a serial killer at large. I don't think I fully buy the idea that JtR was a completely opportunistic murderer.

For example, if he need not go indoors to strike with Kelly, then how come Kelly seems to be the official end of the series? Why is he not back to repeating Eddowes and Chapman elsewhere outdoors?

There is a way too much confidence shown by Eddowes and Kelly in their assailant. Eddowes went with him to that corner of Mitre Sq. Kelly brought him home.

Eddowes snatched walking through the square and Kelly's room intruded upon seems to have more explanatory power than them taking this person to these places at the height of the ripper scare.

Also, how could the ripper dress the same as the description doing the rounds and get away with it for Kelly?

Because kelly probably knew her killer and vice versus and she either let him in or he snuck in when she was passed out via the broken window trick.

[Wickerman]

Yet abberline says all the witnesses only saw his back. Even anderson said the only one who had a good look at the ripper was jewish, hence not hutch.

And abberline opts with the witnesses who saw a man with a peaked cap, basically every witness EXCEPT hutch.

Lawende saw the Duke St. man from the front.
So, was Abberline correct, or not?

After the walkabout two papers say hes discredited or greatly reduced importance.

Yet, on the 19th the Echo report how the authorities are still looking for the Hutchinson suspect.... (along with the Cox suspect).

The police have not relaxed their endeavours to hunt down the murderer in the slightest degree; but so far they remain without any direct clue. Some of the authorities are inclined to place most reliance upon the statement made by Hutchinson.....

Which shows the 'discredited' allegation is itself discredited. An ironic twist, too much for some to accept.

[Abby Normal]

Lawende saw the Duke St. man from the front.
So, was Abberline correct, or not?



Yet, on the 19th the Echo report how the authorities are still looking for the Hutchinson suspect.... (along with the Cox suspect).

The police have not relaxed their endeavours to hunt down the murderer in the slightest degree; but so far they remain without any direct clue. Some of the authorities are inclined to place most reliance upon the statement made by Hutchinson.....

Which shows the 'discredited' allegation is itself discredited. An ironic twist, too much for some to accept.

Hi wick
He was incorrect, but nevertheless lawende admittedly didnt get a good look at him, and yet they still went with lawende for an ID.

Re the echo 19th report- thanks I had been asking and was unaware of this. Point taken.

[Batman]

Because kelly probably knew her killer and vice versus and she either let him in or he snuck in when she was passed out via the broken window trick.

I would think not only knew her but knew her well. It would explain why he stopped because he is close to getting caught. Yet he took that risk because he knew he would not be identified. JtR must have been a total chameleon of personality with charm harbouring what is one of the most extreme pathological hatred of unfortunate women we have seen in such crimes.

If I was to look for this person I would go back to Tabram and say that he knew MJK before August 7, and she knew him and he had designs on her, but wouldn't strike so soon because he would easily be known as a person around her during this time period. I think he remains remote and then shows up again in MJKs life in a day or two before her murder.

Who fits that sort of angle?

[Wickerman]

That Sadler connection to Lawende identification means these ideas that JtR had not been seen or that Hutchinson must be ruled out because he describes a face and not the back, have to be dismissed as not good reasons.

The police knew where to find Lawende, he had a business.
How would they even go about finding Hutchinson two years later?
They needed somebody now, not in a couple of weeks.
Common sense alone dictates which witness they will use.

[Wickerman]

Nothing is changed because the police were interested in people in Astrakhan coats, Batman. I still believe that it is quite unlikely that the Ripper would use that kind of disguise, since far from diverting interest, it instead attracts it.

Right, and I suspect Abberline came to the same conclusion. Hutchinson had not seen the killer, just her penultimate client.
Abberline had already interviewed Kennedy, who ostensibly had seen Kelly after her liaison with Astrachan. So it's not like Abberline wasn't aware of the possibility that Hutchinson had not been the last witness to see Kelly alive that morning after all.

[Wickerman]

Minor or not - and it certainly is minor compared to his other howlers - it shows that Dew's memoirs can't be taken literally.

I'd say memoirs in general, certainly those concerning officials in the Ripper case. None can be trusted.

[Wickerman]

I´m getting curious. Can you list the many howlers, please, so that we all may see what you are talking about?

Didn't Dew also put a beard on Blotchy?

[c.d.]

I would think not only knew her but knew her well. It would explain why he stopped because he is close to getting caught. Yet he took that risk because he knew he would not be identified. JtR must have been a total chameleon of personality with charm harbouring what is one of the most extreme pathological hatred of unfortunate women we have seen in such crimes.

If I was to look for this person I would go back to Tabram and say that he knew MJK before August 7, and she knew him and he had designs on her, but wouldn't strike so soon because he would easily be known as a person around her during this time period. I think he remains remote and then shows up again in MJKs life in a day or two before her murder.

Who fits that sort of angle?

Assuming for the sake of argument that Kelly knew her murderer, how could we possibly determine whether she knew him well or barely at all?

How do we know why he stopped? What evidence do we have that he was close to being caught? Do we have any evidence that the police focused on individuals that knew Kelly as possible suspects?

c.d.

[Abby Normal]

I would think not only knew her but knew her well. It would explain why he stopped because he is close to getting caught. Yet he took that risk because he knew he would not be identified. JtR must have been a total chameleon of personality with charm harbouring what is one of the most extreme pathological hatred of unfortunate women we have seen in such crimes.

If I was to look for this person I would go back to Tabram and say that he knew MJK before August 7, and she knew him and he had designs on her, but wouldn't strike so soon because he would easily be known as a person around her during this time period. I think he remains remote and then shows up again in MJKs life in a day or two before her murder.

Who fits that sort of angle?

Huchinson

[Sam Flynn]

Abberline had already interviewed Kennedy

Eh? I don't remember that.

[Sam Flynn]

If I was to look for this person I would go back to Tabram and say that he knew MJK before August 7, and she knew him and he had designs on her, but wouldn't strike so soon because he would easily be known as a person around her during this time period. I think he remains remote and then shows up again in MJKs life in a day or two before her murder.

Who fits that sort of angle?

Barnett, Fleming...

And why is it necessary to go back to Tabram? Nichols would also fit your scenario - more so, because she was killed at a safer distance away, thus minimising the possibility of the killer's being identified.