Why Didn't the Police Have Schwartz and/or Lawende Take a Look at Hutchinson?

[MrBarnett]

Have you ever bought or seen fish and chips wrapped in newspaper? I have, hundreds, if not thousands, of times as a kid.

Shiny it isn't. You're not going to mistake it for American cloth, and nobody puts a strap around it. Whatever was in Mr Astrakhan's parcel (if either he or the parcel existed) it was not fish and chips.

Once a week (Friday, for obvious reasons) we scoffed fish and chips as a family.

Throughout the week, the chippy and the local pie and mash shop provided my school lunch.

[Sam Flynn]

Shiny looking material. I think it could.

Have you ever bought or seen fish and chips wrapped in newspaper? I have, hundreds, if not thousands, of times as a kid.

Shiny it isn't. You're not going to mistake it for American cloth, and nobody puts a strap around it. Whatever was in Mr Astrakhan's parcel (if either he or the parcel existed) it was not fish and chips.

[Batman]

Not UK-based, I’m guessing?

I really don't see how that being true or false can impact any fact on these matters.

So back to my reply.

I would like to know how we know the exact times.

I think that between 11 and 12 everything including Doss houses are shutting up and it's all done by 12:30. However, Lawende and company stayed in a club until 1:30 am. Chandlery shops stay open to serve suppers to people going home. Open late on holidays?

Also, what's your point?

[Paddy]

I remember reading once that two women were said to have identified a suspect in an asylum. Does anyone have any ideas or have read this also?
Pat...

[MrBarnett]

I would like to know how we know the exact times.

I think that between 11 and 12 everything including Doss houses are shutting up and it's all done by 12:30. However, Lawende and company stayed in a club until 1:30 am. Chandlery shops stay open to serve suppers to people going home. Open late on holidays?

Not UK-based, I’m guessing?

[MrBarnett]

I think it is quite easy to follow how Hutchinson would see with a respectably dressed man some wealthy cloth material in his grasp if it was a fish and potato oily paper package suspended by a strap. Plus back then food carried in cloth would not have been unheard of either. On a stick, it's called a 'Bindle'.

I expect some witness accounts to vary even with the same person and some even to be embellished once the witness figures out it could be the ripper.

Good for you.

[Batman]

Probably.

At what time did the pubs close?

I would like to know how we know the exact times.

I think that between 11 and 12 everything including Doss houses are shutting up and it's all done by 12:30. However, Lawende and company stayed in a club until 1:30 am. Chandlery shops stay open to serve suppers to people going home. Open late on holidays?

[Batman]

What else might purblind Hutch have got wrong, I wonder?

I think it is quite easy to follow how Hutchinson would see with a respectably dressed man some wealthy cloth material in his grasp if it was a fish and potato oily paper package suspended by a strap. Plus back then food carried in cloth would not have been unheard of either. On a stick, it's called a 'Bindle'.

I expect some witness accounts to vary even with the same person and some even to be embellished once the witness figures out it could be the ripper.

[MrBarnett]

Shiny looking material. I think it could.

What else might purblind Hutch have got wrong, I wonder?

[MrBarnett]

You probably had a choice of three suppers.

Fish

Potatoes

Fish and Potatoes

Probably the staple diet of Dorset St and late night drinkers going home.

Probably.

At what time did the pubs close?

[Batman]

Correct.A newspaper bundle containing fish and chips wouldn't be mistaken for American cloth with a (presumably leather) strap around it.

Shiny looking material. I think it could.

[Batman]

Chandlers shops, yes, but fried fish shops?

I can’t imagine McCarthy serving fish and chips at 2 in the morning.

You probably had a choice of three suppers.

Fish

Potatoes

Fish and Potatoes

Probably the staple diet of Dorset St and late night drinkers going home.

[Sam Flynn]

I seem to remember reading accounts of people bringing plates to these places as if their food would be put on the plate there and then, and they carry it back somewhere to eat.

Correct.

A soggy newspaper fish and chip package would indeed look like designer cloth if oily and at night.

A newspaper bundle containing fish and chips wouldn't be mistaken for American cloth with a (presumably leather) strap around it.

[MrBarnett]

At 1:40a.m. on the morning of the murder, Joseph and Elizabeth Mahoney returned home to their rooms at 37 George Yard Building after having enjoyed the bank holiday out. After getting Joseph settled, Elizabeth left again to fetch some supper from a chandler’s shop on Thrawl Street, returning within five minutes. - Wescott, Tom. The Bank Holiday Murders.

Ohhh... could be the same one.

The testimony of James Brown, a dock labourer, of 35 Fairclough Street, is more problematical. At about 12.45 on Sunday morning Brown was returning from a chandler’s shop at the junction of Fairclough and Berner Streets to his home when he saw a man and a woman standing at the corner of the board school. The woman was facing the man and standing with her back to the wall. The man was bending over her, his arm resting on the wall above her head. As he passed them Brown heard the woman say: ‘Not tonight, some other night.’ The man’s height was about five feet seven inches and he was wearing a dark overcoat, so long that it nearly came down to his heels. Brown did not think that either of the two were drunk. - Sugden, Philip. The Complete History of Jack the Ripper.

That one is open quite late it seems.

There are also supper runs by some of the witnesses to the later non-canonical murders.

Chandlers shops, yes, but fried fish shops?

I can’t imagine McCarthy serving fish and chips at 2 in the morning.

[Batman]

Isn't that just where Hutchinson first encountered Astrakhan Man? I've always wondered if Hutchinson's "American cloth parcel" was actually a greasy parcel of fish and chips. It would have had to be very hot to need a strap, though.

I seem to remember reading accounts of people bringing plates to these places as if their food would be put on the plate there and then, and they carry it back somewhere to eat.

Foreigners are not unknown to bring food containers with them. A strap would likely have been a fixture used often if it was for carrying wrapped food. A soggy newspaper fish and chip package would indeed look like designer cloth if oily and at night.