Why Didn't the Police Have Schwartz and/or Lawende Take a Look at Hutchinson?

[Batman]

I doubt the chippies would have been open in the early hours, though.

At 1:40a.m. on the morning of the murder, Joseph and Elizabeth Mahoney returned home to their rooms at 37 George Yard Building after having enjoyed the bank holiday out. After getting Joseph settled, Elizabeth left again to fetch some supper from a chandler’s shop on Thrawl Street, returning within five minutes. - Wescott, Tom. The Bank Holiday Murders.

Ohhh... could be the same one.

The testimony of James Brown, a dock labourer, of 35 Fairclough Street, is more problematical. At about 12.45 on Sunday morning Brown was returning from a chandler’s shop at the junction of Fairclough and Berner Streets to his home when he saw a man and a woman standing at the corner of the board school. The woman was facing the man and standing with her back to the wall. The man was bending over her, his arm resting on the wall above her head. As he passed them Brown heard the woman say: ‘Not tonight, some other night.’ The man’s height was about five feet seven inches and he was wearing a dark overcoat, so long that it nearly came down to his heels. Brown did not think that either of the two were drunk. - Sugden, Philip. The Complete History of Jack the Ripper.

That one is open quite late it seems.

There are also supper runs by some of the witnesses to the later non-canonical murders.

[MrBarnett]

Don't know. I find it hard enough to keep track enen when working.

Me too (before I saw the light and took early retirement).

But the point at issue is whether an intelligent young man, reliant for a period on casual work, would lose track of time.

I think probably not.

[Darryl Kenyon]

I don't know if American cloth could be mistaken for paper but what I do know is I have never known fish and chips being served in anything with a strap on it.

[MrBarnett]

Isn't that just where Hutchinson first encountered Astrakhan Man? I've always wondered if Hutchinson's "American cloth parcel" was actually a greasy parcel of fish and chips. It would have had to be very hot to need a strap, though.

There were also two bakeries (fish and potato pie?) North and South of the Queen Ann pub, and a restaurant (of some sort) directly opposite Dorset St, according to Goad.

Since Whitechapel was apparently known for the odour of fried fish that pervaded the air, it's a fair bet there were several plaices(!) selling fish and chips within spitting distance.
Not to mention that Kelly's last meal could even have been cooked in any lodging house kitchen.

I doubt the chippies would have been open in the early hours, though.

[Joshua Rogan]

‘At present’.

How long does a man have to be out of ‘regular employment’ to lose track of the days of the week?

Don't know. I find it hard enough to keep track enen when working.

[Joshua Rogan]

We know from the Tabram case that fish'n'chips could be bought from a chandlers' shop in Thrawl Street until well past 1AM.

Isn't that just where Hutchinson first encountered Astrakhan Man? I've always wondered if Hutchinson's "American cloth parcel" was actually a greasy parcel of fish and chips. It would have had to be very hot to need a strap, though.

There were also two bakeries (fish and potato pie?) North and South of the Queen Ann pub, and a restaurant (of some sort) directly opposite Dorset St, according to Goad.

Since Whitechapel was apparently known for the odour of fried fish that pervaded the air, it's a fair bet there were several plaices(!) selling fish and chips within spitting distance.
Not to mention that Kelly's last meal could even have been cooked in any lodging house kitchen.

[Darryl Kenyon]

Sorry for repeating myself but I find the idea that a man of probable means [Gold chain etc] would go up a notorious street in the middle of the night, and then into a room up a darkened court with a prostitute while all the time being followed by a man who stooped down to have a look at him very unlikely indeed.
If just for his own safety. How did he know it wasn't a trap? And Hutch wasn't Mary's accomplice ready to mug him of his parcel and chain etc once up the court.

[Darryl Kenyon]

Perhaps if the beer was in a pewter tankard for instance, it may have been hallmarked [maybe given as a gift]. Charles Bentley was one such maker. Which the killer, if it was blotchy may feel might lead to him,[if initialed,hallmarked].
Also, this is a picture of a Victorian kettle of fish, used to poach fish in water.
Looks a little like the object under Mary's bed

[MrBarnett]

Abberline's 12 Nov report of his statement says "Hutchinson is at present of no regular employment"

‘At present’.

How long does a man have to be out of ‘regular employment’ to lose track of the days of the week?

[Joshua Rogan]

How do we know his labouring was occasional?

Abberline's 12 Nov report of his statement says "Hutchinson is at present of no regular employment"

[Sam Flynn]

Where are the Chandlery shops heading towards Dorset St., from Commercial Street?

I touched on this a little earlier:

We know from the Tabram case that fish'n'chips could be bought from a chandlers' shop in Thrawl Street until well past 1AM.

[Sam Flynn]

The Echo 13 Nov thought it was odd

Strange. Even people of my parents' generation would take their own vessels to the shop or the milk cart if they wanted to buy some And, more recently, I've known people come into my own local pub to fill up a plastic canister with beer to take away. Perhaps that wasn't the done thing back in 1888, but I'm not convinced.

Interesting report, though. Evidently some people were looking on Mr Blotchy with suspicion, and I can't see I blame them.

[MrBarnett]

Why must that be the material used in the small parcel and not say... paper?

Hutch said he thought the parcel was wrapped in American cloth.

[Joshua Rogan]

We're not talking about disposable cans of beer, more like a reusable vessel of one's own which could be taken to a pub or shop to be refilled. There was nothing odd in Blotchy taking it away with him after he and Kelly had emptied it... assuming it was empty, of course, and didn't contain a heart, say.

The Echo 13 Nov thought it was odd;

"The statement that the man who accompanied Kelly home was carrying a pot of beer is considered somewhat extraordinary. The can or pot which contained the liquor was not found in the room, and a careful examination of the fireplace and ashes showed that it had not been melted down, as was at first considered probable. If, therefore, the beer was actually taken into the house as described the man must have taken it away with him. This would seem to show that the man, if he were the murderer, feared the can might form a link in a possible chain of evidence against him, and by consequence that he, and not the woman, entered the tavern and bought and paid for the liquor. As far as inquiries have gone, no man answering the description given by Cox entered any tavern in the immediate neighbourhood and took away beer. There is a beershop at the corner of Dorset-street, but, according to information furnished within a few hours of the discovery of the murder, the woman Kelly did not have any drink in the house on the previous night."

"The beer can incident is being inquired into. Though there is no reason to doubt the accuracy of Mary Anne Cox's testimony - it was this witness who saw the man carrying a beer can while accompanying the deceased to her home at midnight - it is a remarkable thing that the can was not discovered in the room. It is not now believed for a moment that the murderer took it away with him. The only other explanation is this: - In the lowest parts of the East-end, as in other districts of ill-repute, it is the practice of women of the unfortunate class to take beer home with them at night, and then place the cans outside their doors. These are collected by potmen in the morning. Inquiries are now being made by Inspector Moore, Inspector Beck, and Detective-sergeant Thicke as to whether any potman in the district collected a can from outside Kelly's room."

[Batman]

Where are the Chandlery shops heading towards Dorset St., from Commercial Street?

You know this overall direction that Hutchinson describes is from the geographic profile hot zone towards Dorset Street for the murder.