Social class of Jack the Ripper

[Paddy]

I have been researching the gangster Jack Spot, through a connection to a family member. It was interesting to read in his memories that the Jews and the Irish gangs often came into conflict in Whitechapel. It sounded a bit like "Gangs of New York" I just wondered if this conflict was also in 1880s?
Just a thought !

Pat.......

[packers stem]

I have been researching the gangster Jack Spot, through a connection to a family member. It was interesting to read in his memories that the Jews and the Irish gangs often came into conflict in Whitechapel. It sounded a bit like "Gangs of New York" I just wondered if this conflict was also in 1880s?
Just a thought !

Pat.......

I suppose they would have been starting to happen Pat but I tend to think of them being more of an early 20th century thing. I think new York was a bit different with huge numbers of people being thrown together and maybe looking for some protection from their own people on arrival.Think people tended to trickle into the east end rather than the sudden massive influx seen in the US

[Rosella]

Because they spent an afternoon together drinking possibly?
What would be your suggestion as to why she walked the opposite way to home?
Why did she want to leave Bishopsgate police station when if she was as drunk as she made out she was she could have slept there till they threw her out.
I would suggest she wasn't as drunk as she made out.She gave all the indication of someone who was trying not to oversleep.Singing,asking the time. When people worry about oversleeping they sleep light,constantly waking themselves.If she was really as drunk as she pretended to be she would have slept till woken

Kate probably didn't want to spend the night in police cells or in a police station for that matter, hence her anxiety to leave. She could have been heading towards St Botolph's Church. This church had a path in front of it which was well known in the district both for penniless women and passing punters willing to buy a girl a drink, even in the early hours of the morning.

[packers stem]

Kate probably didn't want to spend the night in police cells or in a police station for that matter, hence her anxiety to leave. She could have been heading towards St Botolph's Church. This church had a path in front of it which was well known in the district both for penniless women and passing punters willing to buy a girl a drink, even in the early hours of the morning.

Why Rosella?
She had a roof over her head for the night if need be.Usually what was behind looking for a few pennies.
Why not just stay and sleep it off.Makes absolutely no sense, any of it,unless she had a pre-arranged meeting
Why bother wandering out in the rain at 1am when she already had her aim? Somewhere to get her head down for the night

[DJA]

Unless the Ripper had wire-taps in the police station and the pawn-broker's shop, he could not possibly have known which name Eddowes had used.

Yet GSG mentioned "Nothing".

The is ample evidence of Jack's social class.

A substantial reward might have flushed him out.

The Home Secretary did not want that.
Quite simply,if Jack was shown to be a member of the upper class and the authorities knew who he was.....all Hell would have broken loose.

Queen Victoria's "captain's pick" would be gone and she would be stuck with Gladstone again.

Incidentally,Gladstone's letter to The Times supported Jack's experiments with these women.

These women could not be allowed to win!

[RockySullivan]

Yet GSG mentioned "Nothing".

The is ample evidence of Jack's social class.

A substantial reward might have flushed him out.

The Home Secretary did not want that.
Quite simply,if Jack was shown to be a member of the upper class and the authorities knew who he was.....all Hell would have broken loose.

Queen Victoria's "captain's pick" would be gone and she would be stuck with Gladstone again.

Incidentally,Gladstone's letter to The Times supported Jack's experiments with these women.

These women could not be allowed to win!

It is strange that eddowes said her named was "nothing"

[Sam Flynn]

Because they spent an afternoon together drinking possibly?

How did he know what time she'd be released from the cells? How did she, being drunk, make sure she didn't miss any presumed rendezvous? When she did ask the time, all she got by way of response was "too late for you to get another drink" - not particularly useful, if she'd arranged to meet up with her (putative) drinking partner.

What would be your suggestion as to why she walked the opposite way to home?

For one thing, she had no home, so the question is moot. Secondly, whatever her reason, it almost certainly wasn't to meet someone at the corner of a square hundreds of yards away.

[Sam Flynn]

Why not just stay and sleep it off.Makes absolutely no sense, any of it,unless she had a pre-arranged meeting

Presumably not a meeting arranged for an unknowable time after she'd awoken from a drunken stupor, assuming the police released her at all. Her killer was hardly likely to have waited around for hours and hours, with no guarantee that she'd be allowed out.

The whole idea that she left the cells to attend a pre-arranged meeting is absurd.

[DJA]

For one thing, she had no home, so the question is moot.

She had been living in a de facto relationship at 55 Flower and Dean Street since 1881.

Home is where the heart is....unless you go by the name of Mary/Jane Kelly.

[Sam Flynn]

She had been living in a de facto relationship at 55 Flower and Dean Street since 1881.

A common lodging-house, where there was no guarantee of a bed... especially if you couldn't pay for it. Besides, she told her de facto partner earlier that she would head for Bermondsey to find her daughter Annie - or was it "Mary Jane"? She might, as Rosella suggests, have headed for St Botolph's Aldgate. Either way (and there are other possibilities), one of the most logical and economical routes from Bishopsgate police station to either of these destinations would have taken her past Duke's Place/Church Passage, where she most probably bumped into her killer:

[DJA]

A common lodging-house, where there was no guarantee of a bed... especially if you couldn't pay for it. Besides, she told her de facto partner earlier that she would head for Bermondsey to find her daughter Annie - or was it "Mary Jane"? She might, as Rosella suggests, have headed for St Botolph's Aldgate. Either way (and there are other possibilities), one of the most logical and economical routes from Bishopsgate police station to either of these destinations would have taken her past Duke's Place/Church Passage, where she most probably bumped into her killer:

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We do know that her de facto was at their usual address and that they were broke due to a bad hopping season,although she might have returned prematurely for reward money.

We also know that her daughter had changed addresses.

So why did Kate return to the same block she was picked up in earlier!

You reckon she was goin' to church.

[Sam Flynn]

So why did Kate return to the same block she was picked up in earlier!

Evidently, to meet with her killer. Not.

I'm done with this thread.

[packers stem]

How did he know what time she'd be released from the cells? How did she, being drunk, make sure she didn't miss any presumed rendezvous? When she did ask the time, all she got by way of response was "too late for you to get another drink" - not particularly useful, if she'd arranged to meet up with her (putative) drinking partner.
For one thing, she had no home, so the question is moot. Secondly, whatever her reason, it almost certainly wasn't to meet someone at the corner of a square hundreds of yards away.

Someone who is taken in for drunk and disorderly is done so for their own protection as much as for the public.When she could satisfactorily prove she was in a fit enough state to cope,hence the singing and questions, she would have been released to create space.If she was really drunk she'd have slept like a log,pretty obvious really.
Do you really think they'd have held back the time from her if she wanted to know? Really?? The thought is absurd. The throw away line about getting another drink was for fun and /or effect in the statement.
Why then 1.00??
Why not twenty five past four?
Seems like a typical time for checking on the detainees to me. She was adamant she wanted to be released, not to go straight out soliciting on this drizzly night surely? And for what reason when she could have slept in the cells...
Quite a bizarre suggestion really

[DJA]

Evidently, to meet with her killer. Not.

I'm done with this thread.

Kindly close the door on your way out

[Sam Flynn]

Do you really think they'd have held back the time from her if she wanted to know?

What I really think is that the use of "Scooby Doo" methods of investigation, and the tendency to embrace spooky convoluted theories, will get us nowhere.