Social class of Jack the Ripper

[Sam Flynn]

Eddowes pawned the boots as Jane Kelly.

Jane was a common enough name, and an easy choice for a made-up alias. As to the surname, Eddowes' common-law husband was named Kelly, so "Jane Kelly" is an obvious pseudonym for her to have used. For all we know, she could have used "Mary Ann Conway", "Mary Conway", "Jane Conway", "Joan Conway-Kelly", "Mary Jane Conway", "Marian Kelly", "Joan Kelly", "Polly Conway", etc, when the need arose.

Both "Jane" and "Mary" were commonplace enough not to rouse suspicion as, indeed, was "Ann". It's not at all surprising if someone giving a false name to a stranger decided to use either of them, whether singly or in combination. Also, given how commonplace these names are, it is wholly unsurprising if parts of a made-up name were similar to a real person who lived nearby. Especially in a densely-populated area like Whitechapel which, as Jason_C has observed, had more than its fair share of people with Irish surnames.

[Wickerman]

^ Interesting, though, that most of Jack's murders are on weekends and public holidays. If he was unemployed he might have lured a victim or two into deserted alleyways or yards after sunrise and before sunset.

Which might have more to do with the choice & availability of victims, than any work schedule.
There is no clue in the times or days of the murders which indicates whether the killer was employed or unemployed.

[DJA]

There is no clue in the times or days of the murders which indicates whether the killer was employed or unemployed.

Obviously carrying chalk at the start of the teaching term and being able to write the GSG in a neat schoolboy hand in the dark means nothing.

Combined with his surgical skill.....

[Wickerman]

Correct, it means nothing.

[DJA]

....or the proximity of the first two murders to the London Hospital......

[Wickerman]

Which were the first two murders?

[DJA]

The two nearest the London Hospital

[Wickerman]

- What type of chalk was used in Goulston St., tailors chalk, blackboard chalk?

- How many trades and manufacturers use chalk for marking products?

- The "round schoolboy hand" was written by a schoolboy, teacher or some foreigner learning the language?

[packers stem]

The Ripper asks, "Are you called Mary 'Something' Kelly?", and proceeds to kill her if the answer is "Yes"? Unlikely. Given the odds of someone actually having that name, as you've already pointed out, he'd have had vastly more "misses" than "hits". There must have been dozens of women NOT called "Mary 'Something' Kelly" who survived to tell the tale.
No we can't, anymore than we can claim that Polly Nichols' real name was plain old "Mary" Nichols - it wasn't, it was "Mary Ann"... which is entirely different from "Mary Jane".Not quite. We only know for certain that Eddowes used "Mary Ann Kelly" once, and that was in a conversation with the police - a situation under which many people think up a false name. In contrast, "Mary Jane Kelly" had consistently used that name publicly for years before she died, and it was the name by which she was known to lovers, friends and landlords.

The situations in which these names were used are distinctly different, as are the names themselves.

Sorry Sam but I still see absolutely no relevance in the middle name.Mine is John,used occasionally officially, known to my immediate family but not to most of my friends because it's pretty much irrelevant. It was on my birth certificate and will be on my death certificate as it was on Mary Jane Kelly or Marie Jeanette Kelly's death certificate. Do we know polly's friends addressed her as Mary Anne or simply just Mary? It's the first Christian name and the surname that are important for the overwhelming majority on a day to day basis.
What was Caroline maxwell's middle name,Maurice Lewis,Sarah Lewis,Elizabeth Long,Israel Schwartz,annie Chapman,Elizabeth stride,Mathew packer,the list is endless... But when it comes to Mary Kelly we seem to think there's an importance attached to a middle name...there isn't.
Polly nichols was Mary nichols,Mary Kelly was Mary Kelly,Cathy Eddowes was Cathy Conway or Mary Kelly at times.
As for what the ripper asks Eddowes, who can know for sure but what we can be fairly sure of is that someone got her drunk and she went the wrong way from home on leaving the police station.I suspect to meet whoever bought her those drinks. I never suggested someone just walked up to her in Mitre Square and said 'are you Mary Kelly?' of course that would be ridiculous...

[Sam Flynn]

Combined with his surgical skill.....

As in "no surgical skill".

[Sam Flynn]

Sorry Sam but I still see absolutely no relevance in the middle name.

Neither do I - the point is the NAME, in its entirety. "Mary Ann Kelly" is a different name to "Mary Jane Kelly", period. "Mary Ann Kelly" was told to a police officer, "Jane Kelly" to a pawnbroker. Unless the Ripper had wire-taps in the police station and the pawn-broker's shop, he could not possibly have known which name Eddowes had used.

[Sam Flynn]

As for what the ripper asks Eddowes...

Why on earth should he have asked his victims their names? He was about to kill them, not invite them to a dance.

[packers stem]

Neither do I - the point is the NAME, in its entirety. "Mary Ann Kelly" is a different name to "Mary Jane Kelly", period. "Mary Ann Kelly" was told to a police officer, "Jane Kelly" to a pawnbroker. Unless the Ripper had wire-taps in the police station and the pawn-broker's shop, he could not possibly have known which name Eddowes had used.

If I was giving my name officially like I said earlier my middle name would be there. If I was charting to someone in a pub it would not...
There's a world of difference between giving details at a police station and chatting casually with someone

[packers stem]

Why on earth should he have asked his victims their names? He was about to kill them, not invite them to a dance.

Because they spent an afternoon together drinking possibly?
What would be your suggestion as to why she walked the opposite way to home?
Why did she want to leave Bishopsgate police station when if she was as drunk as she made out she was she could have slept there till they threw her out.
I would suggest she wasn't as drunk as she made out.She gave all the indication of someone who was trying not to oversleep.Singing,asking the time. When people worry about oversleeping they sleep light,constantly waking themselves.If she was really as drunk as she pretended to be she would have slept till woken

[packers stem]

Considering Whitechapel was basically the Irish disctrict of London I dont think the names are that much of a coincidence. The surname Kelly would have been over-represented in the poorer areas of London. We see the same type of problem with names of that other over-represented ethnic group in Whitechapel, Polish Jews, with Kosminski/Kaminski and Cohen leading modern researchers a merry dance.

Not really Jason
Spitalfields was primarily populated by the huguenot descendants until the middle of the nineteenth century when Dutch, German and Jewish immigrants admittedly along with Irish and the poorer traditional English.
It was no more Irish than any other nationality. This is borne out by all the names connected with the case,victims or witnesses.
Other than Kelly and McCarthy it's a struggle to think of others. It's a myth that the east end suffered some sort of Irish takeover