Did the Seaside Home ID happen?

[Jeff Leahy]

Hi Jeff,

But it's the "high risk random approach", taken by BS man, that makes me seriously doubt that he could possibly be JtR, whose general MO and approach, I believe, was far more organized.

Hi John

Yeah I get what you and some posters here have been saying.

Somewhere i have some links that take you to people suffering paranoid delusions You tube. They are often quite articulate and more than capable of carrying out conversation. Also schizophrenic psychosis hits sufferers in waves and is affected by catalyst.. Nearly every expert I've spoken with suggests that alcohol could be a factor. So is a Psychotic heavily under the influence of alcohol more coherent than one who hasn't had a drink yet?

I'm also saying that if you look at attacks outside of the cannon, Annie Millwood for example, your looking at something very high risk and random, so perhaps Jack tried many attacks that failed or went wrong (I beehive Bundie describes failed attempts) and what we see is just the tip of the ice burg

Yours Jeff

[Jeff Leahy]

The police would have wanted the ripper case solved their public image took a terrible battering and they would have wanted to reinstall confidence to the general public also could a police officer resist the temptation to be known as the man who cracked the world's biggest case.If there was the slightest chance of Kosminski been jack the ripper the police would have moved heaven and earth to convict him I just can't see him been allowed to enter an asylum and left forgotten for years.

Hi Pink

I'm simply pointing out that Anderson address this in LSOMOL saying why he was not going to release the name. I also believe that Anderson had a meeting with Matilda and worked with her to bring her brother to justice..

So he gave his word to a lady.. That would have been sacrosanct to a Millenists or Bretheren.

There was also Monro's 'Hot Potato' the potential for jewish riots and the Tayloring community were right in the firing line from all directions

Yours Jeff

[Trevor Marriott]

As stated in my previous post Aaron Kozminski is currently the only suspect that fits the knowns relating to Kozminski.

Yours Jeff

Your idea of fits is different to mine, and the know nots far outweigh the knowns !

[pinkmoon]

Hi Pink

I'm simply pointing out that Anderson address this in LSOMOL saying why he was not going to release the name. I also believe that Anderson had a meeting with Matilda and worked with her to bring her brother to justice..

So he gave his word to a lady.. That would have been sacrosanct to a Millenists or Bretheren.

There was also Monro's 'Hot Potato' the potential for jewish riots and the Tayloring community were right in the firing line from all directions

Yours Jeff

I just can't see it sorry from what I have read over the years I have come to the conclusion that Kosminski was not jack the ripper.I think some policeman favoured him because in their eyes a English man couldn't possibly have committed such foul deeds times were a lot different then and forigners were looked upon with great distaste and treated atrousiously by a large section of society might well be why Anderson and Swanson preferred kosminski over Druitt after all Druitt was a gentleman and a gentleman could not possibly have committed such outrages it's just not cricket is it.

[Jeff Leahy]

I just can't see it sorry from what I have read over the years I have come to the conclusion that Kosminski was not jack the ripper.I think some policeman favoured him because in their eyes a English man couldn't possibly have committed such foul deeds times were a lot different then and forigners were looked upon with great distaste and treated atrousiously by a large section of society might well be why Anderson and Swanson preferred kosminski over Druitt after all Druitt was a gentleman and a gentleman could not possibly have committed such outrages it's just not cricket is it.

Personally i think it unfair to point the anti-sematisum card at either Swanson or Anderson.

Actually following criticism from Mentor Anderson went out of his way to make it clear in LSOMOL that he wasn't being anti-Semitic (And lets face it he was an expert on the old testament) and added a number of changes to make that point clear…He was speaking about a very specific group of people, indeed if you read it carefully it can't be helped concluding he was talking about a specific family.

Yours Jeff

[Jeff Leahy]

Your idea of fits is different to mine, and the know nots far outweigh the knowns !

Well actually the knowns fit Aaron Kozminski quite well. Where i believe Fido and Begg made an error was in the assumption that there was only one Asylum incident…. If Aaron entered a Private Asylum in March 1889 (And possibly earlier also Dec1888) as Martin speculated and preferred, then we have a very good match indeed with Begg's preferred Kozminski.

And a number of interesting posts here have speculated that Martin may even have been correct about a mix-up between Cohen and Aaron at Leaman street police station, they were remarkably similar…But that might not go down well with other Kozminskites... thats speculation for another day.

The one i'm interested in is Aaron's family and close relatives and a raid on a brothel at present. I mean has anyone ever wondered if Kozminski might have had family connections to prostitution? 'A strong hatred of women' where does that come from?

Cox:

"He made his way down to St George's in the East End, and there to my astonishment I saw him stop and speak to a drunken woman.

I crouched in a doorway and held my breath. Was he going to throw himself right into my waiting arms? He passed on after a moment or two, and on I slunk after him.

As I passed the woman she laughed and shouted something after me, which, however, I did not catch.

My man was evidently of opinion that he might be followed every minute. Now and again he turned his head and glanced over his shoulder, and consequently I had the greatest difficulty in keeping behind him.

I had to work my way along, now with my back to the wall, now pausing and making little runs for a sheltering doorway. Not far from where the model lodging house stands he met another woman, and for a considerable distance he walked along with her.

Just as I was beginning to prepare myself for a terrible ordeal, however, he pushed her away from him and set off at a rapid pace."

And what is that?

Cox:

"I followed him to Lehman Street, and there I saw him enter a shop which I knew was the abode of a number of criminals well known to the police.

He did not stay long. For about a quarter of an hour I hung about keeping my eye on the door, and at last I was rewarded by seeing him emerging alone."

Cox:

"He occupied several shops"

Macnaughten via Sims:

"who was the sole occupant of certain premises in Whitechapel after night-fall"


Yours Jeff

[pinkmoon]

Well actually the knowns fit Aaron Kozminski quite well. Where i believe Fido and Begg made an error was in the assumption that there was only one Asylum incident…. If Aaron entered a Private Asylum in March 1889 (And possibly earlier also Dec1888) as Martin speculated and preferred, then we have a very good match indeed with Begg's preferred Kozminski.

And a number of interesting posts here have speculated that Martin may even have been correct about a mix-up between Cohen and Aaron at Leaman street police station, they were remarkably similar…But that might not go down well with other Kozminskites... thats speculation for another day.

The one i'm interested in is Aaron's family and close relatives and a raid on a brothel at present. I mean has anyone ever wondered if Kozminski might have had family connections to prostitution? 'A strong hatred of women' where does that come from?

Cox:

"He made his way down to St George's in the East End, and there to my astonishment I saw him stop and speak to a drunken woman.

I crouched in a doorway and held my breath. Was he going to throw himself right into my waiting arms? He passed on after a moment or two, and on I slunk after him.

As I passed the woman she laughed and shouted something after me, which, however, I did not catch.

My man was evidently of opinion that he might be followed every minute. Now and again he turned his head and glanced over his shoulder, and consequently I had the greatest difficulty in keeping behind him.

I had to work my way along, now with my back to the wall, now pausing and making little runs for a sheltering doorway. Not far from where the model lodging house stands he met another woman, and for a considerable distance he walked along with her.

Just as I was beginning to prepare myself for a terrible ordeal, however, he pushed her away from him and set off at a rapid pace."

And what is that?

Cox:

"I followed him to Lehman Street, and there I saw him enter a shop which I knew was the abode of a number of criminals well known to the police.

He did not stay long. For about a quarter of an hour I hung about keeping my eye on the door, and at last I was rewarded by seeing him emerging alone."

Cox:

"He occupied several shops"

Macnaughten via Sims:

"who was the sole occupant of certain premises in Whitechapel after night-fall"


Yours Jeff

But then he adds that "not the slightest scrap of evidence" could be found against him and that the police continued to investigate the crimes long afterwards.He concludes by saying that the crimes are much a mystery as they were 15 years ago that the theories of amateur detectives are based on nothing more than surmise.

[Roy Corduroy]

But then he adds that "not the slightest scrap of evidence" could be found against him ...

Aaron Kosminski was not the man Cox watched. That man

had his shop
was observed busy as usual in daylight hours
waited on customers

I have patiently explained this to you several times, Jeff, but you respond with this wierd thing you do. You make a joke or something.

I used to do stuff like you do when I was a boy, Jeff. Say my friend and I were looking for something, and I didn't find anything, I'd take a nickel out of my pocket and put it on the ground and say "hey look what I found."

Your posts are entertaining over time.

Roy

[pinkmoon]

"Not the slightest scrap of evidence" I think this sums up the whole case the so called "suspects" aren't that at all merely policemans theories.

[Garry Wroe]

Sorry if somebody has already mentioned this, but I think the Psychic documentary (referring to Kosminski) that is being debated was 'Killer Contact' which came out a year or two ago.

That might be the one. If so, and if Jeff Leahy had nothing to do with it, then I again offer an unreserved apology.

I'm not really interested in anything else you have to say I gather this kind of diversionary tactic is your haul mark.

More wishful thinking.

Far from intending to create a diversion, I would have been much more interested in eliciting your response to the post which caused your hysterical outburst. You have stated, for example, that the Ripper was a blitz attacker, and that this is an opinion substantiated by Roy Hazelwood amongst sundry other experts.

Here’s a link to a report on the FBI’s website:-

http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2014/october/serial-killers-part-8-new-research-aims-to-help-investigators-solve-cases/serial-murder-pathways-for-investigations

And here’s a quotation that may be found on Page 11:-

‘Blitz was defined as an immediate physical attack, without any verbal interaction.’

As I previously stated, the blitz attack was originally defined as a mode of assault which entailed no precrime interaction between victim and assailant. This definition was later relaxed by criminologists and crime analysts in order to facilitate obvious blitz attacks where minimal interaction occurred. You, however, insisted that we stick to the original FBI version. Okay, then, let’s do that.

Explain, if you will, the clear interaction witnessed by Mrs Long involving the woman presumed to have been Annie Chapman and her likely killer. Perhaps you’d also care to explain how Chapman and this man made their way into the yard if Chapman was killed blitz-style – in other words, if the attack took place immediately upon first contact with no precrime interaction of any kind.

The same applies to Kate Eddowes, who was almost certainly seen with her killer at the Church Passage entry. In this instance there was palpable precrime interaction between victim and assailant. On top of this Eddowes’ body was found approximately ten minutes later at an entirely different location.

The blitz attack as originally defined by the FBI, remember, constitutes an immediate physical attack with no interaction between victim and assailant.

So, given your aversion to diversionary tactics, feel free to explain how either of the Chapman or Eddowes murders could have resulted from a blitz attack.

[Jeff Leahy]

But then he adds that "not the slightest scrap of evidence" could be found against him and that the police continued to investigate the crimes long afterwards.He concludes by saying that the crimes are much a mystery as they were 15 years ago that the theories of amateur detectives are based on nothing more than surmise.

Yes he does indeed. Thats what I've been arguing. That the investigation into Kozminski happened early on. Possibly starting as early as 14th Oct 1888

And that investigation came to an end in March 1889 when the family decided to place the suspect out of harms way. Thus Cox and MacNaughten concluded correctly from their perspective that Kozminski was not a serious contender for Jack the Ripper.

What they did not know is that almost two years later the family would give that suspect up. A trade in order to gain protection…hence the Crawford letter

The ID was done in secret by Anderson, Swanson and Monroe

The only person who may have picked up on a later observation was Sagar.. He seems to have been watching someone well into 1889, which begs the question how long the family kept Aaron in the Asylum..

But Schizophrenic attacks typically last between 18-22 weeks so if we estimate four months he might have been out by the end of July

Yours Jeff

[Jeff Leahy]

That might be the one. If so, and if Jeff Leahy had nothing to do with it, then I again offer an unreserved apology.

Many thanks. Your apology is accept.

I was getting somewhat frustrated, its one thing defending something you have created but being attack over something you were never involved with becomes highly frustrating. Hopefully the issue is dropped.

Far from intending to create a diversion, I would have been much more interested in eliciting your response to the post which caused your hysterical outburst. You have stated, for example, that the Ripper was a blitz attacker, and that this is an opinion substantiated by Roy Hazelwood amongst sundry other experts.

Here’s a link to a report on the FBI’s website:-

http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2014/october/serial-killers-part-8-new-research-aims-to-help-investigators-solve-cases/serial-murder-pathways-for-investigations

And here’s a quotation that may be found on Page 11:-

‘Blitz was defined as an immediate physical attack, without any verbal interaction.’

As I previously stated, the blitz attack was originally defined as a mode of assault which entailed no precrime interaction between victim and assailant. This definition was later relaxed by criminologists and crime analysts in order to facilitate obvious blitz attacks where minimal interaction occurred. You, however, insisted that we stick to the original FBI version. Okay, then, let’s do that.

Explain, if you will, the clear interaction witnessed by Mrs Long involving the woman presumed to have been Annie Chapman and her likely killer. Perhaps you’d also care to explain how Chapman and this man made their way into the yard if Chapman was killed blitz-style – in other words, if the attack took place immediately upon first contact with no precrime interaction of any kind.

The same applies to Kate Eddowes, who was almost certainly seen with her killer at the Church Passage entry. In this instance there was palpable precrime interaction between victim and assailant. On top of this Eddowes’ body was found approximately ten minutes later at an entirely different location.

The blitz attack as originally defined by the FBI, remember, constitutes an immediate physical attack with no interaction between victim and assailant.

So, given your aversion to diversionary tactics, feel free to explain how either of the Chapman or Eddowes murders could have resulted from a blitz attack.

I simply feel this argument is going nowhere. What we appear to be arguing about is the precise definition of 'Blitz' and how it is used.

The important thing here is how we see the attack happening.

Clearly I believe that the killer did speak to the victims and was coherent enough to do so. My opinion is that he was well known possibly seen regularly in the area. He had enough communication skills to ask for business and struck the women suddenly and by surprise once they were somewhere quiet..opportunity

That's as I see this killer operating, I think it quiet possible that this technique was learn by trial and error with early attacks such as that on Millwood.

Serial killers are not machines they are individuals each with there own unique personality no two killers are identical they are as different as one human being to the next. The important thing here is how you see Jack as a killer, I've described the MO as I see it, getting bogged down in an argument over the meaning of the word 'Blitz' doesn't take us any closer to what happened at the ID.

As I've said several times now I don't think Schizophrenia alone can explain this type of serial killer there has to be a cocktail of cluster B, environment and catalyst. What schizophrenia might explain is what happened to Kozminski later on once placed in an Asylum.

Yours Jeff

[John G]

Many thanks. Your apology is accept.

I was getting somewhat frustrated, its one thing defending something you have created but being attack over something you were never involved with becomes highly frustrating. Hopefully the issue is dropped.



I simply feel this argument is going nowhere. What we appear to be arguing about is the precise definition of 'Blitz' and how it is used.

The important thing here is how we see the attack happening.

Clearly I believe that the killer did speak to the victims and was coherent enough to do so. My opinion is that he was well known possibly seen regularly in the area. He had enough communication skills to ask for business and struck the women suddenly and by surprise once they were somewhere quiet..opportunity

That's as I see this killer operating, I think it quiet possible that this technique was learn by trial and error with early attacks such as that on Millwood.

Serial killers are not machines they are individuals each with there own unique personality no two killers are identical they are as different as one human being to the next. The important thing here is how you see Jack as a killer, I've described the MO as I see it, getting bogged down in an argument over the meaning of the word 'Blitz' doesn't take us any closer to what happened at the ID.

As I've said several times now I don't think Schizophrenia alone can explain this type of serial killer there has to be a cocktail of cluster B, environment and catalyst. What schizophrenia might explain is what happened to Kozminski later on once placed in an Asylum.

Yours Jeff

Hi Jeff,

You state that "He had enough communication skills to ask for business..." Doesn't that tend to rule out Kosminksi as he couldn't speak English?

[Jeff Leahy]

Aaron Kosminski was not the man Cox watched.
Roy

Really and the coincidence of taking a disguise as Inspectors of Sweat shops, watching a certain premises. Several premise.

All interesting relevant to a large family with a number of trades.

We simply do not know Aarons mental condition in 1888. And the possibility remains that he was highly functional. He was certainly able to appear in court in 1889 and was released from the work house in July 1890

Yours Jeff

[Jeff Leahy]

Hi Jeff,

You state that "He had enough communication skills to ask for business..." Doesn't that tend to rule out Kosminksi as he couldn't speak English?

We simply don't know whether he spoke english. Given the time he had been in England and his families various business occupation it seems reasonable to conclude that he did.

Yours Jeff