Team Jack

[Errata]

I posted something on another thread about how I don't believe that the killer was actually a pair of killers, even though that would answer a lot of questions. But I've been thinking about it, and the more I think about the more problems I have discounting the idea. Basically, I can't think of a reason why I should discount the theory. Despite the fact that I do. Is there some piece of evidence out there that says that we are definitely looking at a single perpetrator?

[Wickerman]

All the evidence pertaining directly to the killer, whether a Devilish Deviant, or a Dastardly Duo, is ambiguous.

But, the more killers we have, the more places to hide, the more people to avoid, the more lips to talk, the more mistakes to occur, in fact all the concerns are multiplied.
We find no evidence of one killer, let alone two, three, or five.

Are all these killers really so clever and inconspicuous, that no-one around them suspected anything?

[Simon Wood]

Hi Errata,

"Is there some piece of evidence out there that says that we are definitely looking at a single perpetrator?"

No.

Regards,

Simon

[lynn cates]

super villain

Hello Errata. Good question.

"Is there some piece of evidence out there that says that we are definitely looking at a single perpetrator?"

Only natural human desire for a super villain.

Cheers.
LC

[Lechmere]

And to bring in a boring dose of reality nearly all serial crime has a one perpetrator.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Lechmere,

Agreed. But this only pertains if we are actually dealing with an instance of serial crime.

Such a notion still remains hearsay.

Regards,

Simon

[Stewart P Evans]

All...

All the notions on this thread remain speculation.

[Errata]

Okay, I asked because I know I get pretty single minded when running down a theory. It was equally likely there was some obvious bit of evidence I was forgetting.

There are certainly more cases of single serial killers that duos. But in this case I am thinking of a pair that works together for the most part. Not three or four random murders, but a Hillside Strangler type scenario. Of course pairs are rare outside rape or torture fetishes, but think of Leopold and Loeb if they they had a mutilation fetish. A dominant and submissive, really more a mentor and an apprentice. One is the "Killer" one is the "Mutilator". One concentrates on the throat, the strangling the overkill cut throats. One concentrates on the abdomen. And if they don't always kill together, then you get throat injury murders and abdominal injury murders that half fit "the Ripper", but not quite because they weren't working together.

I'm seeing a good argument for it. So why don't I believe it? Earlier conditioning?

[Digalittledeeperwatson]

I'm seeing a good argument for it. So why don't I believe it? Earlier conditioning?

It's less likely. Pure and simple. Yes earlier conditioning is there, but there are many factors that could be why the murders have the differences that make people think multi killers. It's good and healthy questioning. Conclusions that people come to are not sometimes though. Exhaust all possibilities and then go with what's most probable. If you were working the case at the time. I should say 2-3 people at the most for the main murders that are focused on. Probably unconnected. Not by a large margin given the small amount of data that exists though.

[RivkahChaya]

"It's statistically unlikely," is the usual answer, in that pairs of killers are rarer than single killers, although pairs are not unknown.

However, something to keep in mind is that stats are based on people who have been caught. Any stats on one vs. two killers in serial killings that are unsolved would be based only on very recent incidents, where there was DNA evidence, and then, because you can't prove a negative, it would be fairly easy to see when there had been two killers, but a partner could be "invisible" from the point of view of evidence.

I will say that the crimes seem intuitively to be done by one person, though. Here are the best reasons I have off the cuff:

1) No witness sightings of any victims with two men, or a man and a woman, just prior to the murders.

2) The fact that the killings took place over such a short time-- each individual murder, I mean. If there were two people, I'd expect that each one would want to get his licks in, so to speak, so each only had half the time with each victim. I suppose if the partner mostly got off by watching, and maybe also functioned as a look-out, you have a quite plausible scenario, but that sounds more like an episode of Criminal Minds than anything in real life. Even in real-life man/woman pairs, where the woman mostly watched the actual crime, she usually was the one who lured or procured the victim, and often restrained her.

3) The more people involved, the more chance that eventually, someone talks, and it seems no one ever did. A lot of serial killers go down because they can't help bragging, and I would suspect that might be even truer of someone who is willing to share the initial experience.

4) This one is completely emotional on my part, but I just have a gut feeling that there's something very sad and lonely about the crimes. I just don't feel like they were a shared experience. Of course, I have been wrong before.

[Bridewell]

1) No witness sightings of any victims with two men, or a man and a woman, just prior to the murders.

I'm not sure that's true in the case of Elizabeth Stride.

[Wickerman]

1) No witness sightings of any victims with two men, or a man and a woman, just prior to the murders.

I'm not sure that's true in the case of Elizabeth Stride.

We also have the claim by Mrs Kennedy in seeing Kelly with a man and a woman outside the Britannia about 3:00 am.

[RivkahChaya]

Sorry; I'm in the "Stride wasn't a JtR victim club." As far as Kelly, yes, but that wasn't the very last sighting of her, was it? I don't suppose that matters as much, though, if we are talking about a pair; one significant thing about a pair is that they probably chose their victims together, so it was probably a process, and not a spur of the moment "whoever will go with me" thing.

[Damaso Marte]

I don't know if you guys are familiar with "National Write a Novel Month", but it's something we have in the United States, promoted over Facebook, where each November amateurs try to write an entire novel in the month of November.

A few years ago, when I was still in college, I tried to write a novel, the premise of which was Jack the Ripper as a two person team. I abandoned it when it came time to study for finals. I was, if anything, insecure about how unrealistic the prospect of a two-person serial killing team was...but yes it would tie up some things nicely. Interestingly, I made guy #1 the knifeman on Chapman and Nichols, guy #2 the knifeman on Eddowes...years before I knew that there were people out there who seriously considered Eddowes to be done by a different hand. I was aware of the possible discrepancies between the man seen with Chapman and the man seen with Eddowes, though.

Anyway, I agree with everyone who said that a team is statistically unlikely and also more likely to be caught. Additionally, Ripper murders are famous for their silence and I think two cooks can spoil that broth...as possibly happened if Israel Schwartz was telling the truth.

[Errata]

I was thinking more top man and a bottom man. Top man likes the act of killing, and rips the throat apart for reasons only known to him. He would be the emotional and excitable one. Bottom man is squeamish about actually killing, for any number of reasons including doubting his success. He's the necrosadist. He's the one who carves the women up, who takes organs. He's more cerebral, not emotionally excitable. They can literally work at the same time.

And theres really no reason for them to be spotted together, although it was not terribly uncommon for a prostitute to go off with two customers if another prostitute wasn't available. One would walk off with the victim, one would follow.

I can't think of a single problem that a pair of killers wouldn't clear up. Even why these murders were never solved. I feel like I should buy this scenario.