Edward spooner

[ukranianphil]

I am not putting him forward as Jack the Ripper, but i think he killed Elizabeth stride.
He was standing outside the bee hive pub with a young woman when he heard two jews shouting "murder and police!"
He said he had been to another beer shop before. Did police check this information out?

I Think he was out drinking, and spent his money, he panicked and saw Liz walk up and down berner street, he saw his chance, tried to rob her, realized she could recognize him, he slit her throat. He noticed schwarz's, and shouted "lipski!" Schwartz said the attacker who shouted, did so in English. He then
calmly walked round the corner to fairclough street, met his young woman outside the pub and when he herd Diemshitz and the other member he went back with them to the yard. He went over and touched her chin, he saw a chance to clear himself and he even helped Lamb close the doors. When police arrived, he got involved pretty quick, but he backed off quickly from the scene. He moved soon after the murder, and had a son in 1890. I hope someone can help me?
To prove he was liz strides murderer, i need to know 3 things.
1. His description.
2. was he married at the time of the murder.
3. what beershop was he in before he went to the bee hive.

[lynn cates]

recognised

Hello Phil. Thanks for posting this.

"he panicked and saw Liz walk up and down Berner street, he saw his chance, tried to rob her, realized she could recognize him, he slit her throat. He noticed Schwarz, and shouted "Lipski!" Schwartz said the attacker who shouted, did so in English."

Hopefully, these are not intended chronologically?

At any rate:

1. If he expected to make a haul from Liz, surely, he was disappointed?

2. Realised she could recognise him as --what?

A. A notorious prostitute accoster?

B. A racist who shouts slurs?

C. A thief who stole, perhaps, tuppence?

Cheers.
LC

[ukranianphil]

Hi Lynn.
1. If Liz was not soliciting that night, why did she go into dutfields yard with a man?
Even is she was not, perhaps that is what happened to her sixpence?
2. Spooner lived at 26 fairclough street, and i am sure he would have bumped into her at one point. (doing some research at the moment)
A.no. Spooner just saw an opportunity, i believe it was a one off crime. He moved away a couple of years later.
B. Most people in Whitechapel hated the Jews, so yes it is possible spooner was racist towards them.
B. Like most muggers, people don't know how much their victims have.

anyway lynn it is a work in progress, and if people can put forward that the ripper was a royal, a painter, or a doctor then i can put forward my prime suspect Edward spooner as Liz strides killer.
If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong.

[lynn cates]

recognised

Hello Phil. Thanks.

You may have missed my point under 2. Why would BSM (Spooner?) worry about being recognised? What had he done, up to that point?

Cheers.
LC

[Smoking Joe]

Un fortunately you will never be able to prove your theory,and nobody will be able to disprove it.

[ukranianphil]

True smoking joe, but its fun trying and i hope that one day
We will get a little bit closer to the killer.

[DRoy]

UkranianPhil,

It is true it may be impossible to prove right or wrong. However, to be blunt, is that really what you want your theory to be based on? What evidence or proof is there to back any of what you've said?

Lots of people lived in the area and had just as much opportunity to kill Stride. You're basing your opinion on him being broke? Wasn't most of the population in and around the area? Add Lynn's comments and you've got your work cut out for you.

Of course its possible he killed Stride. But, please don't rely on the "can't prove it wasn't him" rule because it's a weak argument. What's worse is using other ridiculous suspects as a way to push your suspect. I mean that in a helpful way UkranianPhil, honestly.

Besides supposition, provide anything in the sort of evidence and i'll bite. Until then, you may be on your own with this one.

All the best,
DRoy

[DVV]

One thing that is obvious in our story, is that Eddowes and Stride have been murdered by the same individual.

After Lechmere, Spooner.

Why not Davis, Bowyer, Mrs Long or Reeves ? (poor Watkins has already been suspected)

Cheers all

[ukranianphil]

UkranianPhil,

It is true it may be impossible to prove right or wrong. However, to be blunt, is that really what you want your theory to be based on? What evidence or proof is there to back any of what you've said?

Lots of people lived in the area and had just as much opportunity to kill Stride. You're basing your opinion on him being broke? Wasn't most of the population in and around the area? Add Lynn's comments and you've got your work cut out for you.

Of course its possible he killed Stride. But, please don't rely on the "can't prove it wasn't him" rule because it's a weak argument. What's worse is using other ridiculous suspects as a way to push your suspect. I mean that in a helpful way UkranianPhil, honestly.

Besides supposition, provide anything in the sort of evidence and i'll bite. Until then, you may be on your own with this one.

All the best,
DRoy

well, i am doing some research, but it is early days, i just find it strange that he touched liz strides chin. why did he look there? why did he move so soon after the inquest?
Thats why i love looking into this case, the possibilities are endless.
I Don't even think there is a description of him.

[Michael W Richards]

Hi Lynn.
1. If Liz was not soliciting that night, why did she go into dutfields yard with a man?
Even is she was not, perhaps that is what happened to her sixpence?
2. Spooner lived at 26 fairclough street, and i am sure he would have bumped into her at one point. (doing some research at the moment)
A.no. Spooner just saw an opportunity, i believe it was a one off crime. He moved away a couple of years later.
B. Most people in Whitechapel hated the Jews, so yes it is possible spooner was racist towards them.
B. Like most muggers, people don't know how much their victims have.

anyway lynn it is a work in progress, and if people can put forward that the ripper was a royal, a painter, or a doctor then i can put forward my prime suspect Edward spooner as Liz strides killer.
If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong.

Hi ukranianphil,

ok....on the question of your first point.....Liz Stride had stated to her landlady that she had been at work among the Jews the past few months, we have a primarily Jewish membership club... after a large meeting.. that would need to be cleaned. She might have been waiting for a member for a planned social occasion...or to surprise someone. She might have seen a friend in the passageway and went in to say hello. And of course there is the oft used theory that she was with a client. Lots of options.

There is no evidence that suggests Liz Stride frequented that street, or would have been recognizable by anyone on it.

The balance of the post is merely opinion.,...which your entitled to of course. What you cant do is form a theory using only opinion as its basis and expect anyone here to take it too seriously.

Good that you are considering a few alternative answers though.

Cheers

[Smoking Joe]

I suppose Phil what you are saying is that Spooner had the means (a knife)...the motive (He robbed her and she might be able to identify him) and the opportunity (He was in immediate vicinity).
The problem is there were most likely hundreds in the vicinity at the time (immediate or not as immediate) all would have had at least access to some kind of knife, and quite possibly a fair percentage would have robbed anyone .
How about his history? Thats a good place to start. arrests for violence for instance?
Now while at first glance your theory might seem silly to some, at least you have named a person who was at the spot. But again ,how can you hope to prove anything?However if you could place him at or aroud the scene of another murder in the series then it might be food for thought indeed.
Carry on regardless, Professionals are often shocked ,and pissed off, by what the amatuer can and sometimes does, uncover.......There are several examples of that on other threads,but we wont go into that.

[DRoy]

Ukranianphil,

You may be on to something with Spooner!

Think of the position of Stride when found...she was in the position as if being "spooned". Plus she was killed with a knife...perhaps by "Spooner". Get it? Where is the fork? That would be the fork in the road when Spooner had the choice to kill or not kill Stride.

Case solved.

Cheers
DRoy

[ukranianphil]

I suppose Phil what you are saying is that Spooner had the means (a knife)...the motive (He robbed her and she might be able to identify him) and the opportunity (He was in immediate vicinity).
The problem is there were most likely hundreds in the vicinity at the time (immediate or not as immediate) all would have had at least access to some kind of knife, and quite possibly a fair percentage would have robbed anyone .
How about his history? Thats a good place to start. arrests for violence for instance?
Now while at first glance your theory might seem silly to some, at least you have named a person who was at the spot. But again ,how can you hope to prove anything?However if you could place him at or aroud the scene of another murder in the series then it might be food for thought indeed.
Carry on regardless, Professionals are often shocked ,and pissed off, by what the amatuer can and sometimes does, uncover.......There are several examples of that on other threads,but we wont go into that.

ive been looking into his history smoking joe. very interesting, It is the first [proper] piece of research i have done, and i admit it is not looking good. I still say Liz was not a ripper victim, you have to look at each case individually, while keeping the others inmind.
Thank you for the encouragement, and not making cheap jokes.

[DRoy]

Ukranianphil,

I didn't mean it as a cheap joke towards you. I honestly just happened to catch a pun and tried to be a bit silly with it.

I look forward to your research. We at least at this time share the opinion Stride may not be a 'Ripper' victim.

Take care,
DRoy

[ukranianphil]

No problems DRoy.
loving the fourm, and i'm learning a lot.
Thats what its all about. who knows, i might see things differently, and change my mind.
Thanks.