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  • #91
    Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

    The 12.35 time be eliminated as an error. He got there 5 minutes or so before Lamb so not long after 1.00.
    It is a very odd error, given he had not long before stated where he was between about 12:30 and 1:00.
    Surprisingly, Baxter let it go. Perhaps he could see that Spooner was a bit nervous, and cut him some slack.

    By the way, don't you suppose that Smith arrived between 1:00 and 1:05? How does that work if Lamb arrived before Smith and Spooner arrived 5 minutes before Lamb and Diemschitz got to the clock at exactly 1am?

    “As soon as the policeman came I stepped back, and afterwards helped to fasten the gates. When I left it was by the front door of the club. Before that I was searched, and gave my name and address. I was also examined by Dr. Phillips.”

    Spooner doesn’t say that he left as soon as he fastened the gates.

    He just said that he fastened the gates and when he left he left by the front door of the club. After he’d been checked by Phillips.
    That doesn't change anything, and in fact that 'quote' is just a paraphrasing of the Q & A with Reid, recorded by the Daily Telegraph reporter.
    The more detailed account is to be preferred, by default.

    The interrogation of the 28 probably started shortly after Reid's arrival, at about 1:45. It seems all 28 were checked, before anyone could go.
    Recording names, addresses, and whereabouts of all these people, plus being searched, could easily take until 3am.
    Does the following sound like Spooner was at the yard for 2 hours ...?

    When Police-constable Lamb came I helped him to close the gates of the yard, and I left through the club.

    Not really. Perhaps he stayed until shortly after Phillips arrived, but not much longer.
    The fact that Spooner actually mentioned leaving through the club, is a clue on its own.
    If everyone had to wait, before being free to leave through the club, what would be Spooner's point in mentioning that he did so too?
    Perhaps if he'd said I left through the club with everyone else, or I left through the club at the completion of the search, we could ignore it.
    Yet he didn't say anything to that effect. It seems Spooner was special in some unidentified way.
    Andrew's the man, that is not blamed for nothing

    Comment


    • #92
      .
      It is a very odd error, given he had not long before stated where he was between about 12:30 and 1:00.
      Surprisingly, Baxter let it go. Perhaps he could see that Spooner was a bit nervous, and cut him some slack.

      By the way, don't you suppose that Smith arrived between 1:00 and 1:05? How does that work if Lamb arrived before Smith and Spooner arrived 5 minutes before Lamb and Diemschitz got to the clock at exactly 1am
      By not adhering to exact time estimates. Lamb probably got there around 1.05/1.06 after first turning left into Commercial Road. Smith probably got there around 1.06 (a matter of seconds after Lamb had arrived) Spooner probably arrived around 1.02ish. It’s no stretch to suggest that Spooner misjudged 3 or 4 minutes for 5 minutes. Far less of a stretch than the suggestion that he actually arrived 25 minutes before Lamb got there. His 12.35 can be eliminated. For a start Brown heard Diemschutz and Kozebrodski around 1.00. Michael still uses Spooner though as ‘proof’ of an earlier discovery time which beggars belief.
      Regards

      Herlock



      “All conspiracy theories are the product of the subconscious attempt of an ignorant yet creative mind to counteract the fear of the unknown with the tales of fantasy.” Abhijit Naskar.

      “Conspiracy theorists, she knew, were paranoid by definition, and usually with good reason - they were indeed being watched, largely because they were standing on an upturned bucket, haranguing the sheeple with their wingnut delusions.” Mick Herron.

      ”The most confused you will ever get is when you try to convince your heart and spirit of something your mind knows is a lie.” Shannon L. Alder.

      Comment


      • #93
        .
        That doesn't change anything, and in fact that 'quote' is just a paraphrasing of the Q & A with Reid, recorded by the Daily Telegraph reporter.
        The more detailed account is to be preferred, by default.

        The interrogation of the 28 probably started shortly after Reid's arrival, at about 1:45. It seems all 28 were checked, before anyone could go.
        Recording names, addresses, and whereabouts of all these people, plus being searched, could easily take until 3am.
        Does the following sound like Spooner was at the yard for 2 hours ...?

        When Police-constable Lamb came I helped him to close the gates of the yard, and I left through the club.

        Not really. Perhaps he stayed until shortly after Phillips arrived, but not much longer.
        The fact that Spooner actually mentioned leaving through the club, is a clue on its own.
        If everyone had to wait, before being free to leave through the club, what would be Spooner's point in mentioning that he did so too?
        Perhaps if he'd said I left through the club with everyone else, or I left through the club at the completion of the search, we could ignore it.
        Yet he didn't say anything to that effect. It seems Spooner was special in some unidentified way
        Id say that your ‘point’ is baffling but it isn’t of course. You’re again trying to create a mystery where none exist

        Spooner obviously mentions leaving through the club because he’s just stated that he’d closed the gates. He was basically saying ‘although the gates were closed I could still leave by going inside and using the front door.’

        There was obviously nothing special about Spooner. He left via the front door after being seen by Phillips…..just like everyone else.

        Im sorry but you really are scraping the bottom of the barrel with this point. You see mystery and cover-up in absolutely everything.
        Regards

        Herlock



        “All conspiracy theories are the product of the subconscious attempt of an ignorant yet creative mind to counteract the fear of the unknown with the tales of fantasy.” Abhijit Naskar.

        “Conspiracy theorists, she knew, were paranoid by definition, and usually with good reason - they were indeed being watched, largely because they were standing on an upturned bucket, haranguing the sheeple with their wingnut delusions.” Mick Herron.

        ”The most confused you will ever get is when you try to convince your heart and spirit of something your mind knows is a lie.” Shannon L. Alder.

        Comment


        • #94
          Spooner: Between half-past 12 and 1 o'clock on Sunday morning I was standing outside the Bee Hive publichouse, at the corner of Christian-street and Fairclough-street, along with a young woman. I had previously been in another beershop at the top of the street, and afterwards walked down. After talking for about 25 minutes I saw two Jews come running along and shouting out "Murder" and "Police." They then ran as far as Grove-street and turned back. I stopped them and asked what was the matter. They replied, "A woman has been murdered." I then went round with them to Berner-street, and into Dutfield's yard...

          Brown: When I had nearly finished my supper I heard screams of "Murder" and "Police." This was a quarter of an hour after I had got home. ... When I heard screams I opened my window, but could not see anybody. The cries were of moving people going in the direction of Grove-street. Shortly afterwards I saw a policeman standing at the corner of Christian-street, and a man called him to Berner-street.

          Spooner: As I was going to Berner-street I did not meet any one except Mr. Harris, who came out of his house in Tiger Bay. Mr. Harris told me he had heard the policeman's whistle blowing.

          Spooner: One man struck a match, but I could see the woman before the match was struck.

          Lamb: I went into the gateway of No. 40, Berner-street and saw something dark lying on the right-hand side, close to the gates. I turned my light on and found it was a woman.

          Spooner: When Police-constable Lamb came I helped him to close the gates of the yard, and I left through the club.

          See if you can work it out ...
          Andrew's the man, that is not blamed for nothing

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by NotBlamedForNothing View Post
            Spooner: Between half-past 12 and 1 o'clock on Sunday morning I was standing outside the Bee Hive publichouse, at the corner of Christian-street and Fairclough-street, along with a young woman. I had previously been in another beershop at the top of the street, and afterwards walked down. After talking for about 25 minutes I saw two Jews come running along and shouting out "Murder" and "Police." They then ran as far as Grove-street and turned back. I stopped them and asked what was the matter. They replied, "A woman has been murdered." I then went round with them to Berner-street, and into Dutfield's yard...

            Brown: When I had nearly finished my supper I heard screams of "Murder" and "Police." This was a quarter of an hour after I had got home. ... When I heard screams I opened my window, but could not see anybody. The cries were of moving people going in the direction of Grove-street. Shortly afterwards I saw a policeman standing at the corner of Christian-street, and a man called him to Berner-street.

            Spooner: As I was going to Berner-street I did not meet any one except Mr. Harris, who came out of his house in Tiger Bay. Mr. Harris told me he had heard the policeman's whistle blowing.

            Spooner: One man struck a match, but I could see the woman before the match was struck.

            Lamb: I went into the gateway of No. 40, Berner-street and saw something dark lying on the right-hand side, close to the gates. I turned my light on and found it was a woman.

            Spooner: When Police-constable Lamb came I helped him to close the gates of the yard, and I left through the club.

            See if you can work it out ...
            There’s nothing to work out.
            Regards

            Herlock



            “All conspiracy theories are the product of the subconscious attempt of an ignorant yet creative mind to counteract the fear of the unknown with the tales of fantasy.” Abhijit Naskar.

            “Conspiracy theorists, she knew, were paranoid by definition, and usually with good reason - they were indeed being watched, largely because they were standing on an upturned bucket, haranguing the sheeple with their wingnut delusions.” Mick Herron.

            ”The most confused you will ever get is when you try to convince your heart and spirit of something your mind knows is a lie.” Shannon L. Alder.

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

              There’s nothing to work out.
              This sentence perfectly captures the establishment mentality
              Andrew's the man, that is not blamed for nothing

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by NotBlamedForNothing View Post

                This sentence perfectly captures the establishment mentality
                You’d get a better/longer response if you’d simply make your point instead of hanging out these Pierre-like clues. Tell me what you want me to respond to.

                Regards

                Herlock



                “All conspiracy theories are the product of the subconscious attempt of an ignorant yet creative mind to counteract the fear of the unknown with the tales of fantasy.” Abhijit Naskar.

                “Conspiracy theorists, she knew, were paranoid by definition, and usually with good reason - they were indeed being watched, largely because they were standing on an upturned bucket, haranguing the sheeple with their wingnut delusions.” Mick Herron.

                ”The most confused you will ever get is when you try to convince your heart and spirit of something your mind knows is a lie.” Shannon L. Alder.

                Comment

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