Francis Hermans - Update - Solid evidence of him being in vicinity of torso murders.

[Astatine211]

is there anything on when and how long he was in england/ london and when he left? i think if were going to rule him out for any of the london torso murders we need to establish this first.

In May 1887 he was definitely in London, in December 1887 he was in Le Havre, then in November 1889 he was in Glasgow and in early April 1891 he was in Liverpool.

He definitely traveled around a lot!

[Abby Normal]

Not that easy, Abby. In 1887, while running the Sailors’ Home in Le Havre, he popped up in the City of London to attend a conference.

i know and thanks gary. but i know you crack researchers can find it!

[MrBarnett]

is there anything on when and how long he was in england/ london and when he left? i think if were going to rule him out for any of the london torso murders we need to establish this first.

Not that easy, Abby. In 1887, while running the Sailors’ Home in Le Havre, he popped up in the City of London to attend a conference.

[Abby Normal]

is there anything on when and how long he was in england/ london and when he left? i think if were going to rule him out for any of the london torso murders we need to establish this first.

[MrBarnett]

Curious, RJ. It has the whiff of fake news about it.




Emiline was living in Chester Place, Lambeth in 1881. Her occupation was recorded as ‘Infirmary to Foreign Sailors’. She was recorded as a boarder in the household of Emma M. Ratcliff.

[jerryd]

Astatine.

Do you know when, exactly, Hermans was in Glasgow with Emmeline? Her death notice in your clip above seems to indicate she died in Glasgow Nov. 16, 1889. Also, how old was Emmeline? Have you determined that yet?

[rjpalmer]

It is strange that there is one single, solitary but elaborate account from Salt Lake City, dating to 1917, claiming that Hermans was currently being held in a prison in Sweden, but nowhere else is it reported in the U.S.A.

Either it is a bogus report, or his capture received no national news outside of Salt Lake, which seems hard to believe.

[MrBarnett]

Thanks for that, A!

I’m very intrigued by the reference to the Ratcliff Highway. This is a photo of the Seaman’s Rest in the Highway. I’ve got a better one somewhere.

A few years after Emmeline married Frank this was Mary Kelly’s patch.

[Astatine211]

I can’t see what I’m looking for there.

I found the clipping on an Ancestry Tree, but it’s illegible. You may have seen it already.

Hermans is a very interesting subject. I wish you well with your research.

It's a fascinating lead. Thank you for finding it. It's on page 5 of the October issue but I'll attach it here. It explains how he insured Emmeline before murdering her and has lots of info about his surviving son.

[MrBarnett]

https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/l...11/ed-1/seq-1/
https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/l...10/ed-1/seq-1/

These should be the two you're looking for.

I can’t see what I’m looking for there.

I found the clipping on an Ancestry Tree, but it’s illegible. You may have seen it already.

Hermans is a very interesting subject. I wish you well with your research.

[MrBarnett]

Nice photo, Kattrup.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Interesting stuff Astatine (and other contributors of course)

[MrBarnett]

It's a nice thought, but someone has him in their family tree, identified as the son of Francis George Augustus Herman and Mary Ann Collins. They are living in Clapham in 1891, under the name George and Mary Herman, son Frank, plus four other children.

The Rev. Hermans may not be connected to any of the London crimes, but it looks like he is well worth studying and I hope Astatine keeps plugging away. If half of what the newspapers said of him is true, he was another Henri Landru, before there was a Henri Landru.

I wonder if he was connected to the Seamen's Christian Friend Society or some such organization. He once claimed that he did missionary work on steamers, but this could have been a lie.

The Seaman's Institute in Glasgow where he worked was evidently funded by the Seamen's Friend Society, but I'm ignorant whether that was the same group. There are photographs of the building on-line.

Yes, the transcription of the 1911 record showed him incorrectly as Hermans rather than Herman. In 1939 he’s in an asylum near Chatham.

[Herlock Sholmes]

hi el
what book? by whom?

[Kattrup]

On this photo of danish-norwegian methodist preachers conference, Hermans is nr. 26 (middle row, far left). The photo was published in a book 1894, but the conference took place 1892, it seems.