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  • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

    Looks like she 'just happens' to have missed Diemschutz arriving at 12.40 as well according to the above version?
    She did say on and off didnt she? I am well prepared to accept that she was inside when Louis actually arrives, but not that plus Israel plus BSM plus Liz back out on the street again, plus Pipeman....that she missed that arrival AND all those people coming from nowhere to participate in that supposed event Israel, the theatrically dressed friend of Wess's, claims he saw, it just isnt reasonable. She said "nearly the whole time", that means most of that half hour.

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    • Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post

      She did say on and off didnt she? I am well prepared to accept that she was inside when Louis actually arrives, but not that plus Israel plus BSM plus Liz back out on the street again, plus Pipeman....that she missed that arrival AND all those people coming from nowhere to participate in that supposed event Israel, the theatrically dressed friend of Wess's, claims he saw, it just isnt reasonable. She said "nearly the whole time", that means most of that half hour.
      I'll go there again Michael and I'll keep going there because I'm afraid that you keep ignoring this possibility. Fanny gave a more detailed explanation of what she did on that night so why do you only repeat the 'nearly whole time' one?

      Anyway, the whole Schwartz, BS Man, Pipeman incident might have taken little more than 30 seconds and it was hardly a marching band going past.

      Regards

      Sir Herlock Sholmes



      "Tis but a part we see, and not a whole."

      ”Baroni licitum est dicere troglodytam”

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post

        She did say on and off didnt she?
        If she does, could you point out where please?

        Comment


        • According to what she said to an Evening News reporter she spent 10 minutes out of 30 on her doorstep.
          Regards

          Sir Herlock Sholmes



          "Tis but a part we see, and not a whole."

          ”Baroni licitum est dicere troglodytam”

          Comment


          • Originally posted by NotBlamedForNothing View Post

            If he were at the top of Berner street when the clock said 1, what time would it be when he arrives at Dutfield's Yard, if he walks at beat pace?

            Would it take about 2 minutes? So if the clock had been about to tick over to 1:01, he arrives at 1:03.
            Maybe I need to check again, but I thought he came up Berner St. from Fairclough St., not down from Commercial Rd.

            Just checked....
            Police-constable William Smith, 452 H, said that on Saturday night his beat was past Berner-street. It went from the corner of Jower's-walk, Commercial-road, as far as Christian-street, down Christian-street and Fairclough-street as far as Grove-street, then back along Fairclough-street as far as Backchurch-lane, up there as far as the Commercial-road, taking all the interior streets, including Berner-street and Batley-street [Batty-street].

            He doesn't say precisely. Yet here we read:

            When you saw them talking, which way did you go? - Straight up Berner-street into the Commercial-road. In the centre of Berner-street were some courts which led into Backchurch-lane.

            Thats the line that made me think he turned into Berner St. from Fairclough.

            Last edited by Wickerman; 12-03-2020, 10:13 PM.
            Regards, Jon S.

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            • He does according to the Telegraph, Jon;

              "I was in Berner-street about half-past twelve or twenty-five minutes to one o'clock, and having gone round my beat, was at the Commercial-road corner of Berner-street again at one o'clock."

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
                He does according to the Telegraph, Jon;

                "I was in Berner-street about half-past twelve or twenty-five minutes to one o'clock, and having gone round my beat, was at the Commercial-road corner of Berner-street again at one o'clock."
                Yes, but I think that was after he passed up Berner St., he had already passed the couple standing outside the club.

                This tends to suggest he was able to give a time at that point because there was a clock at that location.
                Last edited by Wickerman; 12-03-2020, 10:40 PM.
                Regards, Jon S.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Wickerman View Post

                  Yes, but I think that was after he passed up Berner St., he had already passed the couple standing outside the club.

                  This tends to suggest he was able to give a time at that point because there was a clock at that location.
                  He may have seen or heard a clock at some point. But if h​​​​is beat took 25-30 mins and he was last in Berner Street at 12:30 or 12:35, then, to me it suggests he was back at Berner Street at around 01:00 after completing one whole circuit of his beat.

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                  • The clock I am assuming he saw was the same clock seen by Deimschutz, at the top on Comm. Rd.?
                    Last edited by Wickerman; 12-04-2020, 12:15 AM.
                    Regards, Jon S.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post

                      He may have seen or heard a clock at some point. But if h​​​​is beat took 25-30 mins and he was last in Berner Street at 12:30 or 12:35, then, to me it suggests he was back at Berner Street at around 01:00 after completing one whole circuit of his beat.
                      You can not rely on the beat times as being accurate if a beat time took 30 mins without stopping from point A-B then on the next pass it may have taken 40mins if the officer in some way stopped for some reason to speak to someone or to. Check property or if he didn’t do all that he is supposed to have done it might have been less than 30mins

                      researchers keep falling into the trap of wanting to tie these beats down to the specific times these beats were set

                      www.trevormarriott.co.uk

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Wickerman View Post

                        Yes, but I think that was after he passed up Berner St., he had already passed the couple standing outside the club.
                        You're quite right, Jon. The Times of 6 October says he went up Berner Street after seeing the couple:
                        "When you saw them talking, which way did you go? - Straight up Berner-street into the Commercial-road."

                        All the best,
                        Frank



                        "You can rob me, you can starve me and you can beat me and you can kill me. Just don't bore me."
                        Clint Eastwood as Gunny in "Heartbreak Ridge"

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Wickerman View Post

                          Maybe I need to check again, but I thought he came up Berner St. from Fairclough St., not down from Commercial Rd.

                          Just checked....
                          Police-constable William Smith, 452 H, said that on Saturday night his beat was past Berner-street. It went from the corner of Jower's-walk, Commercial-road, as far as Christian-street, down Christian-street and Fairclough-street as far as Grove-street, then back along Fairclough-street as far as Backchurch-lane, up there as far as the Commercial-road, taking all the interior streets, including Berner-street and Batley-street [Batty-street].

                          He doesn't say precisely. Yet here we read:

                          When you saw them talking, which way did you go? - Straight up Berner-street into the Commercial-road. In the centre of Berner-street were some courts which led into Backchurch-lane.

                          Thats the line that made me think he turned into Berner St. from Fairclough.
                          This is map 6 from Gavin Bromley's Smith's Beat

                          Click image for larger version

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                          Andrew's the man, that is not blamed for nothing

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post

                            If she does, could you point out where please?
                            "I was standing at the door of my house nearly the whole time between half-past twelve and one o'clock this (Sunday) morning, and did not notice anything unusual. "

                            Evening News, October 1st.

                            How much time do you think had elapsed between that contentious half hour and the time of that interview. How much time elapses before we even hear of Israels Story. This had to be fresh in her mind when she made the remarks.

                            Another snippet from that interview.."I was told that the manager or steward of the club had discovered the woman on his return home in his pony cart. He drove through the gates, and my opinion is that he interrupted the murderer, who must have made his escape immediately under cover of the cart.If a man had come out of the yard before one o'clock I must have seen him."

                            And..."A young man and his sweetheart were standing at the corner of the street, about twenty yards away, before and after the time the woman must have been murdered, but they told me they did not hear a sound."

                            Fanny spoke with the young couple after the fact, who also, saw nothing out of the ordinary on a semi deserted street.

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                            • Originally posted by NotBlamedForNothing View Post

                              This is map 6 from Gavin Bromley's Smith's Beat

                              Click image for larger version

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                              I'm aware of that opinion, but Gavin didn't get everything right. Smith's testimony shows where Gavin went wrong.
                              Regards, Jon S.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Wickerman View Post

                                I'm aware of that opinion, but Gavin didn't get everything right. Smith's testimony shows where Gavin went wrong.
                                Are you specifically referring to the 1am issue?
                                If yes, where does that leave Diemschitz?
                                Andrew's the man, that is not blamed for nothing

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