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Stride..a victim?

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  • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

    Do we have a time for this couple Wick? Aren't they the couple that Brown saw on his Chandler Shop visit?
    Unfortunately no. However, worth a thought is where they were immediately prior to reaching the board school.
    According to the female member of another couple on Berner street that night, they met as planned, at midnight...

    "I passed the gate of the yard a few minutes before twelve o'clock alone. The doors were open, and, so far as I could tell, there was nothing inside then." "I met my young man (she proceeded) at the top of the street, and then we went for a short walk along the Commercial-road and back again, and down Berner-street."

    So at what time did the board school couple meet up, and where did they live?
    I would suppose that they too, would have planned to meet somewhere on the hour, or maybe half hour.
    That could mean they were in the vicinity of the 'action', from 12:30 or earlier.
    It's possible they were witnessed earlier and elsewhere...

    Baxter: Did you see anyone about in Berner-street?
    Eagle: I dare say I did, but I do not remember them.

    I dare say Eagle either saw the board school couple, or Stride with parcel man.
    Perhaps Wess saw the board school couple too, taking with another couple...

    Baxter: Did you meet anybody in Berner-street?
    Wess: I can't recollect; but as I went along Fairclough-street, close by, I noticed some men and women standing together.

    The point is, there were people out on Berner and neighbouring streets, others at their door, others waiting up for arrivals from work, and people in the club kitchen, behind an ajar door, just a few yards from the murder spot.
    If Israel Schwartz wants to put himself and three others on street in this time period, and include quarrelling, shouts, physical assaults and running, into the mix, then it has to be accepted that the odds are against no one noticing any of this.
    Andrew's the man, that is not blamed for nothing

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

      Stride was actually with the man. She didn’t need to read ‘signs’ as she’d been manhandled to the ground. She was the target of his aggression.
      I used 'signs' sarcastically.

      Perhaps she didn’t think that she had any chance of out running him? Perhaps she thought that a better option was to try and placate him? Or just to do what he wanted to avoid any further violence?
      After being physically assaulted by a staggering drunk who has been witnessed at close range, why on earth would she suppose that going into the darkness of the laneway, would placate him?
      On the contrary, the anonymity of the darkness would likely worsen the thugs behaviour.
      Stepping into the laneway would have been about the last thing she would have suggested or consented to.
      Have we now reached the stage that Stride's intelligence is to be casually insulted, in the ongoing efforts to protect Israel Schwartz?

      Common sense is rarely applied here. This is another example of an attempt to make something out of nothing.
      Until this murder is solved, we are indeed dealing with something rather then nothing.

      When battered wives stay with their violent husbands people say “why didn’t she just leave?” You’ve pretty much just done the same.
      Comparing Stride's predicament on Berner street, to that of a battered wife, is drawing a long bow.
      Unless perhaps, you are hinting at the closest thing she had to a de facto husband, at the time - Michael Kidney.
      Kidney was cleared of the murder, and while that doesn't amount to proof that he was innocent, it does make it quite a bit less likely, ceteris paribus.

      Stride didn’t run and we don’t know why but we can suggest reasons which may or may not be correct. As a conspiracy theorist you of course go straight to the sinister explanation.
      A murder, by definition, is sinister.

      The most instructive thing though is the lengths that you continue to go to in the never ending quest to see conspiracy where none exists.
      If not believing Schwartz, necessarily amounts to a conspiracy theory, which must therefore be a false one, is Schwartz to be regarded as innocent, by logical necessity?
      Last edited by NotBlamedForNothing; 01-19-2021, 10:47 AM.
      Andrew's the man, that is not blamed for nothing

      Comment


      • . After being physically assaulted by a staggering drunk who has been witnessed at close range, why on earth would she suppose that going into the darkness of the laneway, would placate him?
        On the contrary, the anonymity of the darkness would likely worsen the thugs behaviour.
        Stepping into the laneway would have been about the last thing she would have suggested or consented to.
        Have we now reached the stage that Stride's intelligence is to be casually insulted, in the ongoing efforts to protect Israel Schwartz
        Or shouldn’t we ask how we have reached the stage where we are now assuming that we know what a victim was thinking? What if this drunk was indeed someone that she knew and was pestering her for sex? She says ‘no’ for whatever reason. He gets angry and she tries to resist. She realises that this bloke isn’t going away so she decides to go along with it. Sadly for Liz and the other women these kinds of encounters would not have been a rarity and 2 minutes of unpleasant sex might have been considered a better option than a broken jaw. Maybe he was a regular who was skint and was asking for an “I’ll pay you tomorrow” quickie?”

        There’s no effort to ‘protect’ Schwartz. He’s a witness who was interviewed and believed by experienced police officers at the time. Of course police officers can be fooled but there’s no real evidence in this case. We have Schwartz non-attendance at the Inquest which can’t be explained in terms of the police not believing him but we do have possible/plausible explanations (either way his non-attendance isn’t proof of his unreliability) And then we have the fact that no one else saw or heard an incident that probably lasted for 30 or 40 seconds in a street that was hardly The Strand. Pretty barren ground IMO.

        ......

        A question, where did the quote come from which said that others saw the incident and thought that it was a domestic? Was this just from a single source?
        Regards

        Herlock




        “...A yellow fog swirls past the window-pane
        As night descends upon this fabled street:
        A lonely hansom splashes through the rain,
        The ghostly gas lamps fail at twenty feet.
        Here, though the world explode, these two survive,
        And it is always eighteen ninety-five.”

        Comment


        • Originally posted by NotBlamedForNothing View Post

          Unfortunately no. However, worth a thought is where they were immediately prior to reaching the board school.
          According to the female member of another couple on Berner street that night, they met as planned, at midnight...

          "I passed the gate of the yard a few minutes before twelve o'clock alone. The doors were open, and, so far as I could tell, there was nothing inside then." "I met my young man (she proceeded) at the top of the street, and then we went for a short walk along the Commercial-road and back again, and down Berner-street."

          So at what time did the board school couple meet up, and where did they live?
          I would suppose that they too, would have planned to meet somewhere on the hour, or maybe half hour.
          That could mean they were in the vicinity of the 'action', from 12:30 or earlier.
          It's possible they were witnessed earlier and elsewhere...

          Is there a fuller quote than the one above? My question is: how do we know that this woman and her young man weren’t Brown’s couple?

          Baxter: Did you see anyone about in Berner-street?
          Eagle: I dare say I did, but I do not remember them.

          I dare say Eagle either saw the board school couple, or Stride with parcel man.
          Perhaps Wess saw the board school couple too, taking with another couple...

          Baxter: Did you meet anybody in Berner-street?
          Wess: I can't recollect; but as I went along Fairclough-street, close by, I noticed some men and women standing together.

          The point is, there were people out on Berner and neighbouring streets, others at their door, others waiting up for arrivals from work, and people in the club kitchen, behind an ajar door, just a few yards from the murder spot.
          If Israel Schwartz wants to put himself and three others on street in this time period, and include quarrelling, shouts, physical assaults and running, into the mix, then it has to be accepted that the odds are against no one noticing any of this.


          .
          "A young girl had been standing in a bisecting thoroughfare not fifty yards from the spot where the body was found. She had, she said, been standing there for about twenty minutes, talking with her sweetheart, but neither of them heard any unusual noises".
          Daily News, 1st Oct. 1888
          Could this couple, quoted by Wickerman, have been Spooner and his companion? The length of time that they had been talking is about the same. She left just before Diemschutz arrived. The location isn’t far off either.
          Regards

          Herlock




          “...A yellow fog swirls past the window-pane
          As night descends upon this fabled street:
          A lonely hansom splashes through the rain,
          The ghostly gas lamps fail at twenty feet.
          Here, though the world explode, these two survive,
          And it is always eighteen ninety-five.”

          Comment

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