Henry/ Harry Buckley

[Sam Flynn]

Did Kidney have a liver spot?

Maybe, but that'd be specklation on my part.

[MrBarnett]

Isn't it the case that we can only definitely say that Kidney was living there at the time of her inquest? Before she died, Stride was living at 32 Flower & Dean Street.

Did Kidney have a liver spot?

[Sam Flynn]

38 was where Liz Stride was living with Michael Kidney until she left him, a few days before her death.

Isn't it the case that we can only definitely say that Kidney was living there at the time of her inquest? Before she died, Stride was living at 32 Flower & Dean Street.

[MrBarnett]

ive often thought bowyer needs more looking at.

Hi Abby,

Bowyer doesn’t seem to fit the mould of the usual Dorset Street ‘shopman’. They seem generally to have been younger Eastenders of Irish descent.

Bowyer (if we’ve got the right man) was in his 40s and suffering from ill health in 1888. He was born in Clapham and seems not to have any Irish antecedents.

His army record shows he had a noticeable ‘liver spot’ on his face - a ‘blotch’, if you like.

Gary

[Abby Normal]

I'm very interested in the Manning incident. I assume the woman picked up Manning on Euston Street and he accompanied her to Spitalfields for the purpose of conducting some 'business'. However, it's possible Manning was resident in Dorset Street, picked up a woman and brought here back to his lodgings.
Because of the train stations, Euston Street remains a popular pick up location for sex workers and their client's to this day and I'm sure it was in 1888. But if a woman from Dorset Street was targeting men as far as Euston Street and accompanying them to Dorset Street by cab, this paints a very different picture of how business was conducted than the traditional drunk man with an unfortunate in an alleyway for a quick knee trembler.

37, 38 and 39 Dorset Street were all run by John McCarthy in 1888. 39 is where Mary Kelly may have got her coal. 38 was where Liz Stride was living with Michael Kidney until she left him, a few days before her death.
Liz Stride and Mary Ann Austin both had recently left the premises of John McCarthy only a few days before their death. In Liz's case, it looks like this was from her own choice, but Mary Ann was evicted.
Mary Kelly and Liz Stride may have known each-other. It's certain John McCarthy knew Liz Stride, he was her landlord. Under the circumstances, it's probable or at a minimum possible that Thomas Bowyer and Henry Buckley both knew Liz Stride.

ive often thought bowyer needs more looking at.

[seanr]

It’s worth noting that Manning and the unnamed woman went to 37, Dorset Street, which had been Thomas Bowyer’s address a few weeks before.

It was also the house from which Mary Ann Austin was evicted shortly before her murder.

I'm very interested in the Manning incident. I assume the woman picked up Manning on Euston Street and he accompanied her to Spitalfields for the purpose of conducting some 'business'. However, it's possible Manning was resident in Dorset Street, picked up a woman and brought here back to his lodgings.
Because of the train stations, Euston Street remains a popular pick up location for sex workers and their client's to this day and I'm sure it was in 1888. But if a woman from Dorset Street was targeting men as far as Euston Street and accompanying them to Dorset Street by cab, this paints a very different picture of how business was conducted than the traditional drunk man with an unfortunate in an alleyway for a quick knee trembler.

37, 38 and 39 Dorset Street were all run by John McCarthy in 1888. 39 is where Mary Kelly may have got her coal. 38 was where Liz Stride was living with Michael Kidney until she left him, a few days before her death.
Liz Stride and Mary Ann Austin both had recently left the premises of John McCarthy only a few days before their death. In Liz's case, it looks like this was from her own choice, but Mary Ann was evicted.
Mary Kelly and Liz Stride may have known each-other. It's certain John McCarthy knew Liz Stride, he was her landlord. Under the circumstances, it's probable or at a minimum possible that Thomas Bowyer and Henry Buckley both knew Liz Stride.

[seanr]

Some clarification is needed.
I assume that Stephen Kendall-Lane is the grandfather of Fiona?
In which case is the reference to the man Buckley, based on a written , or oral account from him.
I should say that the wounding of a man in a leg, is a long way from severe mutilation of females., and cannot see the significance, apart from a man with a ginger mustache been present in the area,.
Regards Richard.

Stephen Kendall-Lane is the husband of Fiona Kendall-Lane. The family say they have photographs of John McCarthy and of Mary Kelly. It is possible a photograph of Henry Buckley may exist, but its guesswork as to why Stephen believes 'Harry' Buckley fits the description of the blotchy man Cox described. It may be from a written or oral account. It may be an unreliable identification.

Maybe there's a chance an arrest record or a record exists from Buckley's stay at the Clerkenwell house of detention or some other record exists giving a description of Buckley and evidence for or against Buckley fitting this description can be found.

[Abby Normal]

so looks like the most likely age is 36. and cox says specifically blotchy was 36. interesting.

[MrBarnett]

It’s worth noting that Manning and the unnamed woman went to 37, Dorset Street, which had been Thomas Bowyer’s address a few weeks before.

It was also the house from which Mary Ann Austin was evicted shortly before her murder.

[JeffHamm]

Hi Richard,

Well, a man with a ginger mustache, who's in the area, and willing to use a knife, and who would have reason to be familiar with Mary Jane, is a potentially interesting individual. Finding out more about him would, even if it doesn't lead to him increasing in probability of being JtR, provide some interesting details with respect to life around Dorset Street. I'm really enjoying this thread everyone. Good stuff.

- Jeff

[richardnunweek]

Some clarification is needed.
I assume that Stephen Kendall-Lane is the grandfather of Fiona?
In which case is the reference to the man Buckley, based on a written , or oral account from him.
I should say that the wounding of a man in a leg, is a long way from severe mutilation of females., and cannot see the significance, apart from a man with a ginger mustache been present in the area,.
Regards Richard.

[MrBarnett]

I've been wondering about this. Mostly to figure out if he was staying at 27 or 26 Dorset Street, as it's generally thought 26 Dorset Street contained 'the shed' where McCarthy kept costermonger's barrows and above that was Elizabeth Prater's room, 20 Miller's Court. Yet his address is variously recorded as 26 Dorset Street, 26/ 27 Dorset Street and 27 Dorset Street. Might there have been rooms in 26 Dorset Street aside from 20 Miller's Court at the top?

Also Buckley is in the 1881 census at 27 Dorset Street and his death certificate in 1892 states he lived at 27 Dorset Street. But he's not listed in the 1891 census?

There were 5 households at 26 in 1881, so presumably the upper floors were inhabited.

I haven’t find him on the 1891 Census (so far).

The age on the Court Calender is definitely 36, so it looks like the 1881 census is wrong in that respect, or there were two Dorset Street shopmen with the same name.

[Sam Flynn]

There was no other door into Kelly's room, by the way.

[seanr]

His address on his death cert was 27, Dorset Street. On the 1881 census there was a Henry Buckley living at that address who was described as a ‘shopman (general shop)’.

In 1901, Billy Maher, who seems to have been Ann McCarthy’s minder, was also described as a shop assistant.

I've been wondering about this. Mostly to figure out if he was staying at 27 or 26 Dorset Street, as it's generally thought 26 Dorset Street contained 'the shed' where McCarthy kept costermonger's barrows and above that was Elizabeth Prater's room, 20 Miller's Court. Yet his address is variously recorded as 26 Dorset Street, 26/ 27 Dorset Street and 27 Dorset Street. Might there have been rooms in 26 Dorset Street aside from 20 Miller's Court at the top?

Also Buckley is in the 1881 census at 27 Dorset Street and his death certificate in 1892 states he lived at 27 Dorset Street. But he's not listed in the 1891 census?

[seanr]

Presumably though, when the police interviewed everybody at Miller's Court in November 1888, Henry Buckley was among those interviewed and the police were able to dismiss him from their inquiries?

Then when he was arrested about a month and a half later in Dorset Street itself, charged with malicious wounding and assuming he did match the description of a man they were seeking in relation to the murders, this was picked up on and questions asked in relation to him? He literally was Mary Kelly's neighbour. If he didn't feature in the police investigation at all, that'd raise interesting questions.