Mr Blotchy

[Jon Guy]

Hi Jon.

Could this help: Star, 10 Sep

he states that his name is William Henry Piggott, and that he is 52 years of age. He further said that some years ago he lived at Gravesend, his father having at one time held a position there connected with a friendly society. The man appears to be in a very nervous state. Detective-Sergeant Abberline has arrived at Gravesend from Scotland-yard.

Pigott was brought up this morning to London-bridge by the eighteen minutes past ten train, in charge of Detective Abberline, who was met at the station by Detective Stacy from Scotland-yard. The prisoner was not handcuffed, and was smoking a clay pipe and carrying a white cloth bundle. He passed quickly out of the station, no one among the public apparently noticing him, and was driven in a four-wheeled cab to the police-station in Commercial-street. He has not yet been charged.

The prisoner stands barely 5ft. high. He has a long dark beard, and he wears dark clothes. He is without a waistcoat, and there are several bloodstains on his clothes. Apparently he has been drinking heavily, his condition indicating a recent recovery from delirium tremens. He still maintains that his hand was bitten by a woman whom he knocked down. The prisoner is now locked up in the cells awaiting the arrival of witnesses with a view to identification.

And from the Star, 11 Sep:

This morning there are two men detained on suspicion in connection with the Whitechapel crimes. One is the man Piggott, arrested at Gravesend, and supposed to be the man who went into Fiddymont's public-house at seven on the morning of the murder with blood upon his hands. He was brought to Commercial-street Police Station yesterday afternoon, and placed among a number of other men taken from the street, in order that the builder Taylor, Mrs. Fiddymont, and Mrs. Chappell, the three people who saw the man with the blood-stained hands, might, if possible, identify the captured one. Taylor and Mrs. Fiddymont declared the man at the station not the one they saw, and Mrs. Chappell, though she picked the right man out, failed to positively identify him. This morning, however, Piggot was still in the infirmary recovering slowly from an attack of delirium tremens.

[my emphasis]

Many thanks, Robert.
I believe the attached is a sketch of Piggott.
Can`t believe he was barely 5ft high, though, he was a Hobbit

[Jon Guy]

thanks! so your saying he could be chapmans killer?

In my opinion, he`s the best known suspect for Chapman.

[Robert St Devil]

I need to find a more reliable description for Piggott (so I can compare it to the descriptions of the Clean House Man)
I`m pretty sure Piggott was taller than 5ft.

Descriptions aside, Piggott admitted to have been bitten by a woman he was throwing about on Sat morning off Brick Lane.

Hi Jon.

Could this help: Star, 10 Sep

he states that his name is William Henry Piggott, and that he is 52 years of age. He further said that some years ago he lived at Gravesend, his father having at one time held a position there connected with a friendly society. The man appears to be in a very nervous state. Detective-Sergeant Abberline has arrived at Gravesend from Scotland-yard.

Pigott was brought up this morning to London-bridge by the eighteen minutes past ten train, in charge of Detective Abberline, who was met at the station by Detective Stacy from Scotland-yard. The prisoner was not handcuffed, and was smoking a clay pipe and carrying a white cloth bundle. He passed quickly out of the station, no one among the public apparently noticing him, and was driven in a four-wheeled cab to the police-station in Commercial-street. He has not yet been charged.

The prisoner stands barely 5ft. high. He has a long dark beard, and he wears dark clothes. He is without a waistcoat, and there are several bloodstains on his clothes. Apparently he has been drinking heavily, his condition indicating a recent recovery from delirium tremens. He still maintains that his hand was bitten by a woman whom he knocked down. The prisoner is now locked up in the cells awaiting the arrival of witnesses with a view to identification.

And from the Star, 11 Sep:

This morning there are two men detained on suspicion in connection with the Whitechapel crimes. One is the man Piggott, arrested at Gravesend, and supposed to be the man who went into Fiddymont's public-house at seven on the morning of the murder with blood upon his hands. He was brought to Commercial-street Police Station yesterday afternoon, and placed among a number of other men taken from the street, in order that the builder Taylor, Mrs. Fiddymont, and Mrs. Chappell, the three people who saw the man with the blood-stained hands, might, if possible, identify the captured one. Taylor and Mrs. Fiddymont declared the man at the station not the one they saw, and Mrs. Chappell, though she picked the right man out, failed to positively identify him. This morning, however, Piggot was still in the infirmary recovering slowly from an attack of delirium tremens.

[my emphasis]

[Abby Normal]

Hi Abby

Mrs Chappell thought he might have being Fiddymont`s man, but wasn`t sure.
He was under supervision in the infirmary on the night of the double event.

Although, I agree that he doesn`t appear to be Fiddy`s man, he could be Mrs Long man.

thanks! so your saying he could be chapmans killer?

[Jon Guy]

Hi Jon
But wasn't Piggott not only cleared of being Fiddymonts man, but also of being the ripper (as he was incarcerated at the time of the other murders)?

Hi Abby

Mrs Chappell thought he might have being Fiddymont`s man, but wasn`t sure.
He was under supervision in the infirmary on the night of the double event.

Although, I agree that he doesn`t appear to be Fiddy`s man, he could be Mrs Long man.

[Abby Normal]

I need to find a more reliable description for Piggott (so I can compare it to the descriptions of the Clean House Man)
I`m pretty sure Piggott was taller than 5ft.

Descriptions aside, Piggott admitted to have been bitten by a woman he was throwing about on Sat morning off Brick Lane.

Hi Jon
But wasn't Piggott not only cleared of being Fiddymonts man, but also of being the ripper (as he was incarcerated at the time of the other murders)?

[Jon Guy]

Quite. But they can't both have killed Chapman.
If you're thinking they were one and the same person, Taylor described his man as 5'8" (although he did lose 10 years and gain a few pounds from one day to the next), whereas Piggott was much shorter and bearded.

Star 10th Sept;
"The prisoner stands barely 5ft. high. He has a long dark beard, and he wears dark clothes. He is without a waistcoat, and there are several bloodstains on his clothes."

I need to find a more reliable description for Piggott (so I can compare it to the descriptions of the Clean House Man)
I`m pretty sure Piggott was taller than 5ft.

Descriptions aside, Piggott admitted to have been bitten by a woman he was throwing about on Sat morning off Brick Lane.

[Joshua Rogan]

Hi JR

Ripped shirt and blood on his hands.
When found by police, Piggott had a ripped shirt and had been bitten on his hand.

Quite. But they can't both have killed Chapman.
If you're thinking they were one and the same person, Taylor described his man as 5'8" (although he did lose 10 years and gain a few pounds from one day to the next), whereas Piggott was much shorter and bearded.

Star 10th Sept;
"The prisoner stands barely 5ft. high. He has a long dark beard, and he wears dark clothes. He is without a waistcoat, and there are several bloodstains on his clothes."

[Abby Normal]

Said it before, but I love all these obscure press snippets full of conspicuous characters prowling about during the Ripper scare. And you've got to know that the real killer was among them.

agree Harry-which is why its so dam frustrating (and endlessly interesting).

[Harry D]

Said it before, but I love all these obscure press snippets full of conspicuous characters prowling about during the Ripper scare. And you've got to know that the real killer was among them.

[Jon Guy]

No need for charts, you're already spot on -
The Star 8th Sept says;
"Taylor says he has seen this man coming out of a lodging-house in Thrall-street. He thinks that he is a foreigner"

That said, I agree with Abby rhat he sounds more like he'd been in a street scuffle to me, rather than a crazed murderer. I think I'd have wild eyes if some stranger followed me down the street staring at me, especially if I'd perhaps been attacked earlier.
The mention of him seeming to make up his mind where to head at the end of Brushfield St is intetesting - not far past Dirty Dick's is Bishopsgate police station. Could he have been headed there if he feared being attacked?

Hi JR

Ripped shirt and blood on his hands.
When found by police, Piggott had a ripped shirt and had been bitten on his hand.

[Joshua Rogan]

Yes, charting his movements using these sightings may provide some insights where he lived.Previous maps suggested he lived around Fashion or Thrawl street.

One option is he went home (somewhere near Prince Albert ??) and depositing the uterus and knife .

No need for charts, you're already spot on -
The Star 8th Sept says;
"Taylor says he has seen this man coming out of a lodging-house in Thrall-street. He thinks that he is a foreigner"

That said, I agree with Abby rhat he sounds more like he'd been in a street scuffle to me, rather than a crazed murderer. I think I'd have wild eyes if some stranger followed me down the street staring at me, especially if I'd perhaps been attacked earlier.
The mention of him seeming to make up his mind where to head at the end of Brushfield St is intetesting - not far past Dirty Dick's is Bishopsgate police station. Could he have been headed there if he feared being attacked?

[Fisherman]

TO me the most important thing is it was not against the law if caught lying as per post 1 on another thread Possible reason for Hutch coming forward -it does not matter what reason he told a lie.

The police did not know Hutchinson,don't you think they would have investigated him even if they initially believed him.

Hutch was supposed to be the main witness,his sighting lasted 15 min,the rest -Long,Lawende ,etc.- lasted maybe 10-30 seconds?
Do you think Astra man would not be a prime suspect if Hutch story was true?

Itīs really not hard: Astrakhan man was not a prime suspect, but he was nevertheless sought for. All one needs to do is to work out what could have caused this order of things. He was initially believed to be the killer, and a red hot lead - and then he was downgraded, but NOT ruled uninteresting at all.
Thereīs only one way in which that jigsaw puzzle can be logically laid, as far as I understand. And Walter Dew said it more or less right out.

[Varqm]

Well there is a very fine line between witness and person of interest. It all goes back to the police being idiots and not realizing that a person who claimed to know the victim and was the last person to see her alive and had a rather dodgy story could somehow be her killer. That is very hard to accept.

Regardless of what term you want to use witness or suspect the questions would have been the same:

1. George, why did you wait till after the inquest to come forward?

2. How do you know Mary? How long have you known her?

3. Prior to that night, when was the last time you saw her?

4. What were you doing outside of her building?

Etc. Etc. It makes absolutely no difference whether he came forward as a witness or whether or not he was considered what we today would call a person of interest. He had to have some damn good answers to those questions. So it would seem that his answers satisfied the police so that he never became an "official" suspect.

c.d.

TO me the most important thing is it was not against the law if caught lying as per post 1 on another thread Possible reason for Hutch coming forward -it does not matter what reason he told a lie.

The police did not know Hutchinson,don't you think they would have investigated him even if they initially believed him.

Hutch was supposed to be the main witness,his sighting lasted 15 min,the rest -Long,Lawende ,etc.- lasted maybe 10-30 seconds?
Do you think Astra man would not be a prime suspect if Hutch story was true?

[Fisherman]

Hello Abby,

He may or may not have been a suspect but he almost certainly (and here is where the idiot thing comes in) would have been considered a person of interest. As such, he would have been questioned and his answers would have to make sense.

I agree that the police at the time were not used to dealing with serial killers but that didn't change the fact that they had routine investigative procedures which they followed.

c.d.

Hutchinson was interrogated by Abberline, so they went the extra mile with him.
However, many serialists have been questioned by the police and been able to get through it.