Mr Blotchy

[Fisherman]

OK well so much for Isaacs. Now what about Aman? how come no one believes very soon after and up till this day that he isn't really a viable suspect?

Well, you know my answer ...

[Robert St Devil]

Mr. Devil, were can I read about this incident?

http://www.casebook.org/ripper_media/rps.sims2.html

I want to say I saw it somewhere else too, will keep looking.

[Abby Normal]

Astrakhan man was a prime suspect. from Joseph Isaacs page: Isaacs, born in 1858 was a 30 year old Polish Jewish cigar maker, who had resided at Mary Cusins lodging house in Little Paternoster Row, Spitalfields, for 3 or 4 days. Cusins became suspicious of Isaacs after he was heard pacing the floor of his room all night. Another lodger, Cornelius Oakes, stated that Isaacs often changed his clothing and was heard to threaten violence to all woman over the age of seventeen. When he suddenly vacated his room after the murder of Mary Kelly, Cusins became even more suspicious. She took her suspicions to the police, who searched his room and found he had left behind a violin bow. The police, assuming Isaacs would return for the bow, asked Cusins to keep a look out for him.

On 5 December 1888 Isaacs returned for the bow, whereupon Cusins followed him. Isaacs went to Julius Levenson's pawnshop, and after distracting Levenson, stole a watch worth 30 shillings, and ran away. Isaacs was arrested the next day in Drury Lane (co-incidentally on the same day as Ripper suspect, Aaron Cohen) and taken under strong escort to Leman Street police station.

The newspapers believed the police had arrested Jack the Ripper, and overheard Inspector Abberline saying to one of his officers, 'Keep this quiet, we have got the right man at last, this is a big thing'. Isaacs was interviewed by Abberline, and must have given a satisfactory account of himself, as he was subsequently only charged with the theft of the watch. Isaacs was described as short in stature, with a black moustache, wearing an Astrakhan trimmed coat and appeared to fit the suspect described by George Hutchinson. This would offer an explanation as to why the police paid such attention to Isaacs, and why they believed they had such a strong suspect.

OK well so much for Isaacs. Now what about Aman? how come no one believes very soon after and up till this day that he isn't really a viable suspect?

[RockySullivan]

Haha nice!

I noticed the man in the pic has a resemblance to George R. Sims, the journalist who the coffee stallholder claimed visited his stall "shortly after the double murder, and announced to the stallholder that he would hear of two more murders the following day". I wonder if the man believed to be Jack the Ripper had a striking resemblance to these men.

Mr. Devil, were can I read about this incident?

[RockySullivan]

TO me the most important thing is it was not against the law if caught lying as per post 1 on another thread Possible reason for Hutch coming forward -it does not matter what reason he told a lie.

The police did not know Hutchinson,don't you think they would have investigated him even if they initially believed him.

Hutch was supposed to be the main witness,his sighting lasted 15 min,the rest -Long,Lawende ,etc.- lasted maybe 10-30 seconds?
Do you think Astra man would not be a prime suspect if Hutch story was true?

Astrakhan man was a prime suspect. from Joseph Isaacs page: Isaacs, born in 1858 was a 30 year old Polish Jewish cigar maker, who had resided at Mary Cusins lodging house in Little Paternoster Row, Spitalfields, for 3 or 4 days. Cusins became suspicious of Isaacs after he was heard pacing the floor of his room all night. Another lodger, Cornelius Oakes, stated that Isaacs often changed his clothing and was heard to threaten violence to all woman over the age of seventeen. When he suddenly vacated his room after the murder of Mary Kelly, Cusins became even more suspicious. She took her suspicions to the police, who searched his room and found he had left behind a violin bow. The police, assuming Isaacs would return for the bow, asked Cusins to keep a look out for him.

On 5 December 1888 Isaacs returned for the bow, whereupon Cusins followed him. Isaacs went to Julius Levenson's pawnshop, and after distracting Levenson, stole a watch worth 30 shillings, and ran away. Isaacs was arrested the next day in Drury Lane (co-incidentally on the same day as Ripper suspect, Aaron Cohen) and taken under strong escort to Leman Street police station.

The newspapers believed the police had arrested Jack the Ripper, and overheard Inspector Abberline saying to one of his officers, 'Keep this quiet, we have got the right man at last, this is a big thing'. Isaacs was interviewed by Abberline, and must have given a satisfactory account of himself, as he was subsequently only charged with the theft of the watch. Isaacs was described as short in stature, with a black moustache, wearing an Astrakhan trimmed coat and appeared to fit the suspect described by George Hutchinson. This would offer an explanation as to why the police paid such attention to Isaacs, and why they believed they had such a strong suspect.

[Abby Normal]

Yes, he was a major suspect for Chapman.
I agree, I doubt he was left unattended.
Maybe handcuffed to his bed at night (which ties in with that sighting of a man dragging a bed frame down Wentworth Street on the night of the double event.)

LOL!!!!!

[Jon Guy]

one more: was Piggott actually a ripper suspect (or at least chapman suspect)at the time of his incarceration?
I believe he was-which of course would make it harder for him to leave, because if he was a murder suspect then, he was probably being guarded and/or kept somewhere he couldn't leave.

Yes, he was a major suspect for Chapman.
I agree, I doubt he was left unattended.
Maybe handcuffed to his bed at night (which ties in with that sighting of a man dragging a bed frame down Wentworth Street on the night of the double event.)

[Abby Normal]

Yes, I thought about that too
He was in the Whitechapel infirmary under police supervision. Now, whether that means the copper was sitting in a chair by his bed the whole time he was in there, I don`t know.
Could he have slipped out of a window at 1am and effectively cleared himself by committing a murder whilst he was supposedly confined.
Goulston Street was on the way back to the Infirmary.
Lots of questions.

one more: was Piggott actually a ripper suspect (or at least chapman suspect)at the time of his incarceration?
I believe he was-which of course would make it harder for him to leave, because if he was a murder suspect then, he was probably being guarded and/or kept somewhere he couldn't leave.

[Jon Guy]

To be fair to Piggott, he claimed that he hit the woman only after she bit him, when he tried to help her as she had a fit.

Yes, that`s what he said to the police.

Is there a good description of Isenschmidt? For what it's worth, Mrs Fiddymont (Star 10th Sept again) apparently said "The man did not look in the least like a butcher".

Yes, our Lynn Cates did some sterling research into him.
If you have a look at Lynn`s Isenschmidt threads, there are many photos of him (Jacob, not Lynne) and even physical descriptions such as height and weight.

[Joshua Rogan]

I don`t think Piggott was the Ripper, but in my opinion, the best known suspect.

Why?
Mrs Long description
He assaulted a woman on Sat morning somewhere off Brick Lane, and the blood stains on his clothes, and bite to his hand.
He was wandering around the area Fri/sat without lodgings.
He quickly absconded to Gravesend

Fiddy and Taylor didn`t pick him out as their man, but Mrs Chappell wasn`t so sure.

Yes, Abberline thought he was the man, but Jacob was much too fat to be Fiddy`s man.
Did Abberline actually see Isenchmidt ? I know Thicke went to the asylum

To be fair to Piggott, he claimed that he hit the woman only after she bit him, when he tried to help her as she had a fit.

Is there a good description of Isenschmidt? For what it's worth, Mrs Fiddymont (Star 10th Sept again) apparently said "The man did not look in the least like a butcher".

[Jon Guy]

Ive often wondered about Piggot-he checks a lot of boxes. Plus Ive wondered about his incarceration-how easy for him to get out (and return) to have done the double event. Imean he wasn't actually in jail Correct?

Yes, I thought about that too
He was in the Whitechapel infirmary under police supervision. Now, whether that means the copper was sitting in a chair by his bed the whole time he was in there, I don`t know.
Could he have slipped out of a window at 1am and effectively cleared himself by committing a murder whilst he was supposedly confined.
Goulston Street was on the way back to the Infirmary.
Lots of questions.

[Abby Normal]

Yes, this is a problem, but it has been noted that Eddowes could have been by a different hand, and Piggott was out and about again when Kelly was killed.

Thanks for clarifying Jon

Ive often wondered about Piggot-he checks a lot of boxes. Plus Ive wondered about his incarceration-how easy for him to get out (and return) to have done the double event. Imean he wasn't actually in jail Correct?

[Fisherman]

I don`t think Piggott was the Ripper, but in my opinion, the best known suspect.

Why?
Mrs Long description
He assaulted a woman on Sat morning somewhere off Brick Lane, and the blood stains on his clothes, and bite to his hand.
He was wandering around the area Fri/sat without lodgings.
He quickly absconded to Gravesend

Fiddy and Taylor didn`t pick him out as their man, but Mrs Chappell wasn`t so sure.

Yes, Abberline thought he was the man, but Jacob was much too fat to be Fiddy`s man.
Did Abberline actually see Isenchmidt ? I know Thicke went to the asylum

Okay, thanks Jon!

I donīt think there is any evidence that Abberline saw Issenschmid - but having made the call he did, he would have been served a useful description, methinks.

[Jon Guy]

Thanks Jon
But surely chapman was killed by the ripper, and Piggott couldn't have been the ripper, having been incarcerated on the night of the double event?

Yes, this is a problem, but it has been noted that Eddowes could have been by a different hand, and Piggott was out and about again when Kelly was killed.

[Jon Guy]

In the early 1870:s, the average height for British men was 5 ft 5, so being 5 inches shorter would not have been that dramatic. Reasonably, a good many men would have been of that height.

The Swedish king Gustav Vasa was regarded as a giant back in the 1500:s. He was 163 centimeters, which would be around 5 ft 3 or 5 ft 4. The rest would have been a fair bit shorter.

Thanks Christer, I was doubtful because I hadn`t read that before. I wrote an article on him ages ago and I`m sure I had a full description of him from a good source but maybe his height was not mentioned.
Although, it does put him at Chapman`s height which is what Long saw (a little taller than the deceased)