Mr Blotchy

[Abby Normal]

How far could Blotchy have carried the pale full of ale? Cops questioned workers at all the bars nearby I assume? Did they find anyone who remembered seeing Blotchy?

I don’t think so. I know they looked for him and inquired at the bars but nothing.

[Abby Normal]

Ah, so you do agree that Abbeline's later suspect George Chapman, sounds a lot like the man described by Hutchinson. You just query why Abberline does not mention Hutchinson by name?
I don't see why he should, the fact Abberline seems to adopt a similar suspect should speak for itself.

If you remember it was reported in the press that Abberline was excited when Isaacs, in his Astrachan coat, was arrested on Dec. 6th. Clearly, Abberline still had Hutchinson's story on his mind in December.




Well, I would have worded it differently, but I know what you mean.
As I said above, Abberline seems to have maintained faith in Hutchinson's story for many years.

No. If he had maintained faith in hutch’s story, hutch and his suspect would have figured into his Chapman suspect theory, especially since Chapman even fit the aman description. Instead, he goes for the peaked cap man ala the night of the double event, and never is aman heard of again.

[RockySullivan]

How far could Blotchy have carried the pale full of ale? Cops questioned workers at all the bars nearby I assume? Did they find anyone who remembered seeing Blotchy?

[Sam Flynn]

There are already two women in this story.
Even if you only believe Lewis, she says she was with another female, so by her own words there are two women involved in this story.

Yes, but Lewis doesn't say her name was Mrs Kennedy.

Obviously, at the very least they were close friends, so equally obviously they both shared the same experience.

Not to the extent of staying with relatives/friends in the room opposite Kelly's in Miller's Court at the very same time on the night of the latter's murder. No way did "Kennedy" and Lewis both do this.

[RockySullivan]

Ha ha thanks I should have known it meant Winslow was writing about the Ripper case. Do you know where I can read the original newspaper account of the coffee stall holder? I mean before he saw Winslow's picture.

[Robert St Devil]

Thanks, do you know where i can read the full story of the coffee stallholder who says the man told him of the two murders? I also read the coffee stallholder wrote a "complete history of the case", is this true and is there any way to read it?

http://forum.casebook.org/showpost.p...1&postcount=59

I'd never been that far down the rabbit-hole to answer those questions, Rock. Considering the fact that I brought it up as well as having no life, I dug deeper tonight. Your question leads back to Dr. Forbes Winslow. He's the psychiatrist of the insane in London during the time of the Whitechapel murders, and his suspect is more in line with the lodger theory. The coffee stall holder(?) takes the book with the photo of George Sims to {Scotland Yard, the Herald ?} and to Dr. Forbes Winslow, and claims his "Jack resemblance" story. Apparently Dr Forbes Winslow believes his expertise with the insane can help apprehend the killer; he claims that he went into all parts of Whitechapel, and that he gained the trust of the locals where they began offering information. This reason could answer why the coffee stall holder took the book to him. There are some excellent threads on JTR Forums regarding Sims, Dr Forbes Winslow and the coffee man. However, it seems like it was Dr Forbes Winslow, not the coffee man, who was compiling a "complete history of the case".

http://www.archive.org/stream/recollectionsoff00winsiala/recollectionsoff00winsiala_djvu.txt

In his memoir RECOLLECTION OF FORTY YEARS is an entire section dedicated to Dr Forbes Winslow's experience with Jack the Ripper, to include his suspicions on the killer's identity, his movements, his correspondence, his psychological profile of Jack the Ripper as well as his bombastic assertion that he was responsible for the cessation of the London murders.

[Wickerman]

and after this? nothing. even abberline later describing his favored suspect dosnt even bring up hutch or Aman, eventhough Aman fits his own suspects description down to the curled up mustache!

Ah, so you do agree that Abbeline's later suspect George Chapman, sounds a lot like the man described by Hutchinson. You just query why Abberline does not mention Hutchinson by name?
I don't see why he should, the fact Abberline seems to adopt a similar suspect should speak for itself.

If you remember it was reported in the press that Abberline was excited when Isaacs, in his Astrachan coat, was arrested on Dec. 6th. Clearly, Abberline still had Hutchinson's story on his mind in December.

and no one now, even apparently, you, consider him aMan serious suspect.

that's because everyone knows hutch was full of ****.

Well, I would have worded it differently, but I know what you mean.
As I said above, Abberline seems to have maintained faith in Hutchinson's story for many years.

[Wickerman]

What's crazy is any theory that contends that both "Mrs Kennedy" and Sarah Lewis could have shared so many experiences and still not have been one and the same person. If that weren't the case, then it's eminently possible that "Mrs Kennedy" had nicked Lewis's story and was passing it off as her own. There is no way that she was a separate, reliable witnesses.

There are already two women in this story.
Even if you only believe Lewis, she says she was with another female, so by her own words there are two women involved in this story.
Obviously, at the very least they were close friends, so equally obviously they both shared the same experience.

[Abby Normal]

They were still looking for both Astrachan & Blotchy, at least 10 days after the murder - Nov. 19th.

"The police have not relaxed their endeavours to hunt down the murderer in the slightest degree; but so far they remain without any direct clue. Some of the authorities are inclined to place most reliance upon the statement made by Hutchinson as to his having seen the latest victim with a gentlemanly man of dark complexion, with a dark moustache. Others are disposed to think that the shabby man with a blotchy face and a carrotty moustache described by the witness Mary Ann Cox, is more likely to be the murderer."
Echo, 19 Nov.

and after this? nothing. even abberline later describing his favored suspect dosnt even bring up hutch or Aman, eventhough Aman fits his own suspects description down to the curled up mustache!

and the only police ever who later brings him up thinks hutch was mistaken.

and no one now, even apparently, you, consider him aMan serious suspect.

that's because everyone knows hutch was full of ****.

[c.d.]

Hutchinson was interrogated by Abberline, so they went the extra mile with him.
However, many serialists have been questioned by the police and been able to get through it.

Hello Fish,

I agree completely. In theory, every single person in the investigation who was cleared or released could have been the Ripper. So where does that leave us? Are we to completely disregard the fact that apparently Hutch was not considered to be involved in Kelly's murder by the police at the time?

c.d.

[Sam Flynn]

In fact we don't have a single witness being interviewed by three different journalists, for three different newspapers, all speaking to a witness that "never existed" - only in the crazy world of Jack the Ripper Theorists.

What's crazy is any theory that contends that both "Mrs Kennedy" and Sarah Lewis could have shared so many experiences and still not have been one and the same person. If that weren't the case, then it's eminently possible that "Mrs Kennedy" had nicked Lewis's story and was passing it off as her own. There is no way that she was a separate, reliable witnesses.

[Joshua Rogan]

Thanks Joshua. That's interesting. Previous geographic profiles suggested that area as a likely place where he lived.

Was there anything in the press about the specific lodging house where he was staying ? Or does anyone know which lodging houses were in Thrall Street ?

Sorry no, that's all the info I found. There were apparently 10 registered lodging houses in Thrawl Street. Only Flower & Dean St (30) and Dorset St (13) had more. The only one I can name is Wilmot's, where Polly Nichols stayed.

Would records still exist about who was staying there on that night ?

Wouldn't that be nice! Sadly even if they still existed I suspect it wouldn't be much help - at the Eddowes inquest the lodging house keeper Wilkinson was sent to fetch his book to see if any strange men had rented a bed that night, but it didn't seem to contain any useful details and he said he didn't record the names of lodgers :-(

[Wickerman]

OK well so much for Isaacs. Now what about Aman? how come no one believes very soon after and up till this day that he isn't really a viable suspect?

They were still looking for both Astrachan & Blotchy, at least 10 days after the murder - Nov. 19th.

"The police have not relaxed their endeavours to hunt down the murderer in the slightest degree; but so far they remain without any direct clue. Some of the authorities are inclined to place most reliance upon the statement made by Hutchinson as to his having seen the latest victim with a gentlemanly man of dark complexion, with a dark moustache. Others are disposed to think that the shabby man with a blotchy face and a carrotty moustache described by the witness Mary Ann Cox, is more likely to be the murderer."
Echo, 19 Nov.

[Wickerman]

Oh god.... here we go. Another one with their own legendarium.
Lewis saw Mary Kelly? And saw her with Aman? Phantom witnesses named Kennedy? Lol!

The thing is Abby, we don't have any phantom witnesses in the Zodiac murders. We don't have them in the Long Island Serial Killer cases either. Nor any other murder cases that come to mind.

In fact we don't have a single witness being interviewed by three different journalists, for three different newspapers, all speaking to a witness that "never existed" - only in the crazy world of Jack the Ripper Theorists.

[Abby Normal]

Here's how Joseph Taylor's description compares to other witness descriptions

Joseph Taylor & Mrs Fiddymont

About 5ft 8in high. One article said 30 – 40 years old, another said 40 – 50 years old. He had a shabby genteel look, pepper and salt trousers, which fitted badly and dark coat. Short sandy hair and a ginger-colored moustache, curling a little at the ends. He was neither stout nor thin. The man did not look in the least like a butcher.

Blotchy (Mary Ann Cox)
A short, stout man, shabbily dressed. A longish, dark coat, very shabby. A round hard billycock. He had a blotchy face, and full carrotty moustache. The chin was shaven.

Lawende
About 30 years old, 5 feet 7 or 8 inches tall, medium build, fair complexion and mustache. He wore a pepper-and-salt loose jacket, a gray cloth cap with a peak, and a reddish neckerchief tied in a knot. Lawende thought he looked like a sailor.

P.C Smith
5 feet 7 inches tall, clean shaven, aged around 28, wearing dark clothes and a dark hard felt deerstalker hat.

Ada Wilson
25 to 30 years of age, medium height (about 5ft. 5in.), sunburnt face, fair moustache, and wore light trousers, a dark coat, and a wideawake hat.

Craig

thanks Craig
well fiddymont man and blotchy certainly sound similar.