Mr Blotchy

[Robert St Devil]

Yes, the artist sketched Piggott when he thought he was drawing Pizer.
Both were take into custody on the Monday morning. Piggott was taken to Commercial Street and then onto Leman Street for the Fiddy id parade. Pizer was taken to Leman Street

Pizer actually saw the Star sketch and said it looked "more like the man in the moon" than himself :-)

Haha nice!

I noticed the man in the pic has a resemblance to George R. Sims, the journalist who the coffee stallholder claimed visited his stall "shortly after the double murder, and announced to the stallholder that he would hear of two more murders the following day". I wonder if the man believed to be Jack the Ripper had a striking resemblance to these men.

[Jon Guy]

So you are going with the troika Long/Cadosh/Richardson, then? But Mrs Fiddymont didnīt pick Piggott out as the guy she had seen. Instead Abberline stated that Issenschmid was this man. And Piggot was not responsible for Eddowes, obviously.
So what specifically makes you go for Piggott in the Chapman case?

I don`t think Piggott was the Ripper, but in my opinion, the best known suspect.

Why?
Mrs Long description
He assaulted a woman on Sat morning somewhere off Brick Lane, and the blood stains on his clothes, and bite to his hand.
He was wandering around the area Fri/sat without lodgings.
He quickly absconded to Gravesend

Fiddy and Taylor didn`t pick him out as their man, but Mrs Chappell wasn`t so sure.

Yes, Abberline thought he was the man, but Jacob was much too fat to be Fiddy`s man.
Did Abberline actually see Isenchmidt ? I know Thicke went to the asylum

[Fisherman]

Can`t believe he was barely 5ft high, though, he was a Hobbit

In the early 1870:s, the average height for British men was 5 ft 5, so being 5 inches shorter would not have been that dramatic. Reasonably, a good many men would have been of that height.

The Swedish king Gustav Vasa was regarded as a giant back in the 1500:s. He was 163 centimeters, which would be around 5 ft 3 or 5 ft 4. The rest would have been a fair bit shorter.

[Abby Normal]

In my opinion, he`s the best known suspect for Chapman.

Thanks Jon
But surely chapman was killed by the ripper, and Piggott couldn't have been the ripper, having been incarcerated on the night of the double event?

[Fisherman]

In my opinion, he`s the best known suspect for Chapman.

So you are going with the troika Long/Cadosh/Richardson, then? But Mrs Fiddymont didnīt pick Piggott out as the guy she had seen. Instead Abberline stated that Issenschmid was this man. And Piggot was not responsible for Eddowes, obviously.
So what specifically makes you go for Piggott in the Chapman case?

[Jon Guy]

I saw that sketch in the Star. I think it was Piser.

Yes, the artist sketched Piggott when he thought he was drawing Pizer.
Both were take into custody on the Monday morning. Piggott was taken to Commercial Street and then onto Leman Street for the Fiddy id parade. Pizer was taken to Leman Street

Pizer actually saw the Star sketch and said it looked "more like the man in the moon" than himself :-)

[Robert St Devil]

I saw that sketch in the Star. I think it was Piser.

[Jon Guy]

Hi Jon.

Could this help: Star, 10 Sep

he states that his name is William Henry Piggott, and that he is 52 years of age. He further said that some years ago he lived at Gravesend, his father having at one time held a position there connected with a friendly society. The man appears to be in a very nervous state. Detective-Sergeant Abberline has arrived at Gravesend from Scotland-yard.

Pigott was brought up this morning to London-bridge by the eighteen minutes past ten train, in charge of Detective Abberline, who was met at the station by Detective Stacy from Scotland-yard. The prisoner was not handcuffed, and was smoking a clay pipe and carrying a white cloth bundle. He passed quickly out of the station, no one among the public apparently noticing him, and was driven in a four-wheeled cab to the police-station in Commercial-street. He has not yet been charged.

The prisoner stands barely 5ft. high. He has a long dark beard, and he wears dark clothes. He is without a waistcoat, and there are several bloodstains on his clothes. Apparently he has been drinking heavily, his condition indicating a recent recovery from delirium tremens. He still maintains that his hand was bitten by a woman whom he knocked down. The prisoner is now locked up in the cells awaiting the arrival of witnesses with a view to identification.

And from the Star, 11 Sep:

This morning there are two men detained on suspicion in connection with the Whitechapel crimes. One is the man Piggott, arrested at Gravesend, and supposed to be the man who went into Fiddymont's public-house at seven on the morning of the murder with blood upon his hands. He was brought to Commercial-street Police Station yesterday afternoon, and placed among a number of other men taken from the street, in order that the builder Taylor, Mrs. Fiddymont, and Mrs. Chappell, the three people who saw the man with the blood-stained hands, might, if possible, identify the captured one. Taylor and Mrs. Fiddymont declared the man at the station not the one they saw, and Mrs. Chappell, though she picked the right man out, failed to positively identify him. This morning, however, Piggot was still in the infirmary recovering slowly from an attack of delirium tremens.

[my emphasis]

Many thanks, Robert.
I believe the attached is a sketch of Piggott.
Can`t believe he was barely 5ft high, though, he was a Hobbit

[Jon Guy]

thanks! so your saying he could be chapmans killer?

In my opinion, he`s the best known suspect for Chapman.

[Robert St Devil]

I need to find a more reliable description for Piggott (so I can compare it to the descriptions of the Clean House Man)
I`m pretty sure Piggott was taller than 5ft.

Descriptions aside, Piggott admitted to have been bitten by a woman he was throwing about on Sat morning off Brick Lane.

Hi Jon.

Could this help: Star, 10 Sep

he states that his name is William Henry Piggott, and that he is 52 years of age. He further said that some years ago he lived at Gravesend, his father having at one time held a position there connected with a friendly society. The man appears to be in a very nervous state. Detective-Sergeant Abberline has arrived at Gravesend from Scotland-yard.

Pigott was brought up this morning to London-bridge by the eighteen minutes past ten train, in charge of Detective Abberline, who was met at the station by Detective Stacy from Scotland-yard. The prisoner was not handcuffed, and was smoking a clay pipe and carrying a white cloth bundle. He passed quickly out of the station, no one among the public apparently noticing him, and was driven in a four-wheeled cab to the police-station in Commercial-street. He has not yet been charged.

The prisoner stands barely 5ft. high. He has a long dark beard, and he wears dark clothes. He is without a waistcoat, and there are several bloodstains on his clothes. Apparently he has been drinking heavily, his condition indicating a recent recovery from delirium tremens. He still maintains that his hand was bitten by a woman whom he knocked down. The prisoner is now locked up in the cells awaiting the arrival of witnesses with a view to identification.

And from the Star, 11 Sep:

This morning there are two men detained on suspicion in connection with the Whitechapel crimes. One is the man Piggott, arrested at Gravesend, and supposed to be the man who went into Fiddymont's public-house at seven on the morning of the murder with blood upon his hands. He was brought to Commercial-street Police Station yesterday afternoon, and placed among a number of other men taken from the street, in order that the builder Taylor, Mrs. Fiddymont, and Mrs. Chappell, the three people who saw the man with the blood-stained hands, might, if possible, identify the captured one. Taylor and Mrs. Fiddymont declared the man at the station not the one they saw, and Mrs. Chappell, though she picked the right man out, failed to positively identify him. This morning, however, Piggot was still in the infirmary recovering slowly from an attack of delirium tremens.

[my emphasis]

[Abby Normal]

Hi Abby

Mrs Chappell thought he might have being Fiddymont`s man, but wasn`t sure.
He was under supervision in the infirmary on the night of the double event.

Although, I agree that he doesn`t appear to be Fiddy`s man, he could be Mrs Long man.

thanks! so your saying he could be chapmans killer?

[Jon Guy]

Hi Jon
But wasn't Piggott not only cleared of being Fiddymonts man, but also of being the ripper (as he was incarcerated at the time of the other murders)?

Hi Abby

Mrs Chappell thought he might have being Fiddymont`s man, but wasn`t sure.
He was under supervision in the infirmary on the night of the double event.

Although, I agree that he doesn`t appear to be Fiddy`s man, he could be Mrs Long man.

[Abby Normal]

I need to find a more reliable description for Piggott (so I can compare it to the descriptions of the Clean House Man)
I`m pretty sure Piggott was taller than 5ft.

Descriptions aside, Piggott admitted to have been bitten by a woman he was throwing about on Sat morning off Brick Lane.

Hi Jon
But wasn't Piggott not only cleared of being Fiddymonts man, but also of being the ripper (as he was incarcerated at the time of the other murders)?

[Jon Guy]

Quite. But they can't both have killed Chapman.
If you're thinking they were one and the same person, Taylor described his man as 5'8" (although he did lose 10 years and gain a few pounds from one day to the next), whereas Piggott was much shorter and bearded.

Star 10th Sept;
"The prisoner stands barely 5ft. high. He has a long dark beard, and he wears dark clothes. He is without a waistcoat, and there are several bloodstains on his clothes."

I need to find a more reliable description for Piggott (so I can compare it to the descriptions of the Clean House Man)
I`m pretty sure Piggott was taller than 5ft.

Descriptions aside, Piggott admitted to have been bitten by a woman he was throwing about on Sat morning off Brick Lane.

[Joshua Rogan]

Hi JR

Ripped shirt and blood on his hands.
When found by police, Piggott had a ripped shirt and had been bitten on his hand.

Quite. But they can't both have killed Chapman.
If you're thinking they were one and the same person, Taylor described his man as 5'8" (although he did lose 10 years and gain a few pounds from one day to the next), whereas Piggott was much shorter and bearded.

Star 10th Sept;
"The prisoner stands barely 5ft. high. He has a long dark beard, and he wears dark clothes. He is without a waistcoat, and there are several bloodstains on his clothes."