Mr Blotchy

[RockySullivan]

They sold them in bars for take out beer

Oh so he likely did come from a bar then? Was it a ruse to throw off where he had been? I assumed if he was drinking in a pub then kelly could have been with him drinking in a pub somewhere in whitechapel so someone saw them. I guess they could have met each other on the street while Kelly was walking home though, in which case carrying a bucket full of ale from somewhere other than a pub, would lead the police in the wrong direction at first. What could a bucket be useful for? Cleaning up afterwards? Carrying Mary Kelly's head away with them. If Jack was the Torso Killer and he killed Mary Kelly in her own room. It would be futile to attempt to obscure her identity. Although I guess I did quite a job of it.

[Varqm]

They were still looking for both Astrachan & Blotchy, at least 10 days after the murder - Nov. 19th.

"The police have not relaxed their endeavours to hunt down the murderer in the slightest degree; but so far they remain without any direct clue. Some of the authorities are inclined to place most reliance upon the statement made by Hutchinson as to his having seen the latest victim with a gentlemanly man of dark complexion, with a dark moustache. Others are disposed to think that the shabby man with a blotchy face and a carrotty moustache described by the witness Mary Ann Cox, is more likely to be the murderer."
Echo, 19 Nov.

Alibis.stories could take longer than 10 days to investigate.It could take weeks,months.

[Abby Normal]

Thanks Wick so I wonder if he didn't acquire the pale of beer from a nearby bar than where did he get it? Was this common in whitechapel or does the bucket suggest somewhere other than a bar?

They sold them in bars for take out beer

[RockySullivan]

The Daily Telegraph made this remark:
" Inquiry has equally failed to obtain evidence of Kelly or any person similar to the man described having bought beer at any of the neighbouring public-houses."
Nov. 13th.

We don't know if "inquiry" refers to the police, or the press making inquiries.

Thanks Wick so I wonder if he didn't acquire the pale of beer from a nearby bar than where did he get it? Was this common in whitechapel or does the bucket suggest somewhere other than a bar?

[Wickerman]

How far could Blotchy have carried the pale full of ale? Cops questioned workers at all the bars nearby I assume? Did they find anyone who remembered seeing Blotchy?

The Daily Telegraph made this remark:
" Inquiry has equally failed to obtain evidence of Kelly or any person similar to the man described having bought beer at any of the neighbouring public-houses."
Nov. 13th.

We don't know if "inquiry" refers to the police, or the press making inquiries.

[Abby Normal]

You must remember that picture of Chapman in a peaked cap?



In Abberline's mind Chapman may have fit both suspect descriptions.
Chapman's appearance must have had something to do with it because Chapman was never known to be near a crime scene, or identified by anyone else.

Chapman was only 23 too, the same as Kozminski - still wet behind the ears.

thanks for posting that wick. that's a chilling photo.

[Wickerman]

Yes, but Lewis doesn't say her name was Mrs Kennedy.

Mrs. Long's name was not Durrell either, but that is the name she gave the press. Mrs. Long was still a legitimate witness.

No doubt you prefer to believe Sarah Lewis just gave the name Kennedy to the press, thereby still refusing to acknowledge this second woman, or that this second woman could have spoken to the press.
Whoever this second woman was, she gave the name "Kennedy", real or false we may never know.

- Why you think Lewis (if Kennedy) would say she was at the Britannia "about 3:00", but tell the court (as Lewis) that she was at the Keylers at 2:30", is a problem.
- Why you think Lewis (if Kennedy) would say she was with Kelly outside the Britannia, but tell the court (as Lewis) that she didn't know Kelly, is another problem.
- Why you think Lewis (if Kennedy) would say there was one man, but two women, outside the Britannia, yet tell the court there was one man & one woman outside the Britannia, is another problem.
- Why you think Lewis (if Kennedy) would omit mentioning the loiterer, and the second couple in Dorset St. as she entered the court, yet tell the court (as Lewis) she did see this loiterer watching another man & woman enter the court, is yet again, another problem.

This just goes to show the significant differences between the stories of these two women.
Two women, Gareth - Two!

Not to the extent of staying with relatives/friends in the room opposite Kelly's in Miller's Court at the very same time on the night of the latter's murder. No way did "Kennedy" and Lewis both do this.

Again, why would you convince yourself of something we have no knowledge of?
Of course Lewis will know what time her friend gets home at night (from work?), best friends know these things.

[Wickerman]

No. If he had maintained faith in hutch’s story, hutch and his suspect would have figured into his Chapman suspect theory, especially since Chapman even fit the aman description. Instead, he goes for the peaked cap man ala the night of the double event, and never is aman heard of again.

You must remember that picture of Chapman in a peaked cap?



In Abberline's mind Chapman may have fit both suspect descriptions.
Chapman's appearance must have had something to do with it because Chapman was never known to be near a crime scene, or identified by anyone else.

Chapman was only 23 too, the same as Kozminski - still wet behind the ears.

[RockySullivan]

I don’t think so. I know they looked for him and inquired at the bars but nothing.

Maybe he wasn't coming from a bar?

[Robert St Devil]

Has anyone been through the Whitechapel or neighbouring Infirmary records 1888 for men in their 30s with a skin complaint?

Hi Jon. One skin complaint that I'm considering is favus, mostly when I consider Jack being German. The mention of a "removed boil" in the case of John Cleary had me wondering. When I read up on the Coram Street mystery, it described the accused doctor of having "pimples", which weren't evident at his trial. Apparently they can be peeled off, which is what I consider for the bloody handkerchiefs discovered in that case. Dr William Gull treated a 20 year old man for the condition in 62.
pg 275

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015024481841;view=1up;seq=285;skin=mobile

[Fisherman]

Yes, but Lewis doesn't say her name was Mrs Kennedy.Not to the extent of staying with relatives/friends in the room opposite Kelly's in Miller's Court at the very same time on the night of the latter's murder. No way did "Kennedy" and Lewis both do this.

Oh come on, Gareth - if you can stretch yourself more than a bungyjump rope when it comes to how the Ripper and the torso man would have been two killers, then surely you can have a little faith about Kennedys existence? People stay with friends all the time, but the fewest cut away abdominal walls in flaps.

[Fisherman]

Hello Fish,

I agree completely. In theory, every single person in the investigation who was cleared or released could have been the Ripper. So where does that leave us? Are we to completely disregard the fact that apparently Hutch was not considered to be involved in Kelly's murder by the police at the time?

c.d.

No, I would not go that far. People who were hauled over the coals are less likely to be good suspects - but they are not impossible suspects per se.

So Barnett, Hutchinson and Bury (for example) must be looked at with some scepticism when suggested as the killer.

[Fisherman]

What's crazy is any theory that contends that both "Mrs Kennedy" and Sarah Lewis could have shared so many experiences and still not have been one and the same person.

But it´s NOT crazy to state that two killers in the same time period and town, who both
-cut from ribs to pubes
-steal rings from victims
-cut away the abdominal wall in flaps
-take out uteri
-take out colon sections
-take out hearts
-target prostitutes
must be different people.

CIGOL. That what LOGIC becomes when turning it backwards.

[Michael W Richards]

Yes, but Lewis doesn't say her name was Mrs Kennedy.Not to the extent of staying with relatives/friends in the room opposite Kelly's in Miller's Court at the very same time on the night of the latter's murder. No way did "Kennedy" and Lewis both do this.

Careful Sam, you might set a precedent. Logic and reason don't always win the day here.

[Jon Guy]

Has anyone been through the Whitechapel or neighbouring Infirmary records 1888 for men in their 30s with a skin complaint?