Mr Blotchy

[Fisherman]

Yes, but Lewis doesn't say her name was Mrs Kennedy.Not to the extent of staying with relatives/friends in the room opposite Kelly's in Miller's Court at the very same time on the night of the latter's murder. No way did "Kennedy" and Lewis both do this.

Oh come on, Gareth - if you can stretch yourself more than a bungyjump rope when it comes to how the Ripper and the torso man would have been two killers, then surely you can have a little faith about Kennedys existence? People stay with friends all the time, but the fewest cut away abdominal walls in flaps.

[Robert St Devil]

Has anyone been through the Whitechapel or neighbouring Infirmary records 1888 for men in their 30s with a skin complaint?

Hi Jon. One skin complaint that I'm considering is favus, mostly when I consider Jack being German. The mention of a "removed boil" in the case of John Cleary had me wondering. When I read up on the Coram Street mystery, it described the accused doctor of having "pimples", which weren't evident at his trial. Apparently they can be peeled off, which is what I consider for the bloody handkerchiefs discovered in that case. Dr William Gull treated a 20 year old man for the condition in 62.
pg 275

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015024481841;view=1up;seq=285;skin=mobile

[RockySullivan]

I don’t think so. I know they looked for him and inquired at the bars but nothing.

Maybe he wasn't coming from a bar?

[Wickerman]

No. If he had maintained faith in hutch’s story, hutch and his suspect would have figured into his Chapman suspect theory, especially since Chapman even fit the aman description. Instead, he goes for the peaked cap man ala the night of the double event, and never is aman heard of again.

You must remember that picture of Chapman in a peaked cap?



In Abberline's mind Chapman may have fit both suspect descriptions.
Chapman's appearance must have had something to do with it because Chapman was never known to be near a crime scene, or identified by anyone else.

Chapman was only 23 too, the same as Kozminski - still wet behind the ears.

[Wickerman]

Yes, but Lewis doesn't say her name was Mrs Kennedy.

Mrs. Long's name was not Durrell either, but that is the name she gave the press. Mrs. Long was still a legitimate witness.

No doubt you prefer to believe Sarah Lewis just gave the name Kennedy to the press, thereby still refusing to acknowledge this second woman, or that this second woman could have spoken to the press.
Whoever this second woman was, she gave the name "Kennedy", real or false we may never know.

- Why you think Lewis (if Kennedy) would say she was at the Britannia "about 3:00", but tell the court (as Lewis) that she was at the Keylers at 2:30", is a problem.
- Why you think Lewis (if Kennedy) would say she was with Kelly outside the Britannia, but tell the court (as Lewis) that she didn't know Kelly, is another problem.
- Why you think Lewis (if Kennedy) would say there was one man, but two women, outside the Britannia, yet tell the court there was one man & one woman outside the Britannia, is another problem.
- Why you think Lewis (if Kennedy) would omit mentioning the loiterer, and the second couple in Dorset St. as she entered the court, yet tell the court (as Lewis) she did see this loiterer watching another man & woman enter the court, is yet again, another problem.

This just goes to show the significant differences between the stories of these two women.
Two women, Gareth - Two!

Not to the extent of staying with relatives/friends in the room opposite Kelly's in Miller's Court at the very same time on the night of the latter's murder. No way did "Kennedy" and Lewis both do this.

Again, why would you convince yourself of something we have no knowledge of?
Of course Lewis will know what time her friend gets home at night (from work?), best friends know these things.

[Abby Normal]

You must remember that picture of Chapman in a peaked cap?



In Abberline's mind Chapman may have fit both suspect descriptions.
Chapman's appearance must have had something to do with it because Chapman was never known to be near a crime scene, or identified by anyone else.

Chapman was only 23 too, the same as Kozminski - still wet behind the ears.

thanks for posting that wick. that's a chilling photo.

[Wickerman]

How far could Blotchy have carried the pale full of ale? Cops questioned workers at all the bars nearby I assume? Did they find anyone who remembered seeing Blotchy?

The Daily Telegraph made this remark:
" Inquiry has equally failed to obtain evidence of Kelly or any person similar to the man described having bought beer at any of the neighbouring public-houses."
Nov. 13th.

We don't know if "inquiry" refers to the police, or the press making inquiries.

[RockySullivan]

The Daily Telegraph made this remark:
" Inquiry has equally failed to obtain evidence of Kelly or any person similar to the man described having bought beer at any of the neighbouring public-houses."
Nov. 13th.

We don't know if "inquiry" refers to the police, or the press making inquiries.

Thanks Wick so I wonder if he didn't acquire the pale of beer from a nearby bar than where did he get it? Was this common in whitechapel or does the bucket suggest somewhere other than a bar?

[Abby Normal]

Thanks Wick so I wonder if he didn't acquire the pale of beer from a nearby bar than where did he get it? Was this common in whitechapel or does the bucket suggest somewhere other than a bar?

They sold them in bars for take out beer

[Varqm]

They were still looking for both Astrachan & Blotchy, at least 10 days after the murder - Nov. 19th.

"The police have not relaxed their endeavours to hunt down the murderer in the slightest degree; but so far they remain without any direct clue. Some of the authorities are inclined to place most reliance upon the statement made by Hutchinson as to his having seen the latest victim with a gentlemanly man of dark complexion, with a dark moustache. Others are disposed to think that the shabby man with a blotchy face and a carrotty moustache described by the witness Mary Ann Cox, is more likely to be the murderer."
Echo, 19 Nov.

Alibis.stories could take longer than 10 days to investigate.It could take weeks,months.

[RockySullivan]

They sold them in bars for take out beer

Oh so he likely did come from a bar then? Was it a ruse to throw off where he had been? I assumed if he was drinking in a pub then kelly could have been with him drinking in a pub somewhere in whitechapel so someone saw them. I guess they could have met each other on the street while Kelly was walking home though, in which case carrying a bucket full of ale from somewhere other than a pub, would lead the police in the wrong direction at first. What could a bucket be useful for? Cleaning up afterwards? Carrying Mary Kelly's head away with them. If Jack was the Torso Killer and he killed Mary Kelly in her own room. It would be futile to attempt to obscure her identity. Although I guess I did quite a job of it.

[RockySullivan]

*I should be he

[Sam Flynn]

Again, why would you convince yourself of something we have no knowledge of?
Of course Lewis will know what time her friend gets home at night (from work?), best friends know these things.

But they don't crash out with friends/relatives opposite Kelly's room on the night of her murder. It's absurdly unlikely that "Kennedy" and Lewis both did this.

You're a very intelligent man, Jon, which is why I find it utterly baffling that you can continue to believe that "Kennedy" was a separate witness.

[Wickerman]

Alibis.stories could take longer than 10 days to investigate.It could take weeks,months.

True, that paragraph is only significant for those who try to push the argument that the police dropped Hutchinson straight away because they found out he was lying.
Clearly, they did no such thing. Which suggests they believed his story, at least as far out as December 6th, when the Astrachan attired Joseph Isaacs was arrested. After that, who knows....

[Wickerman]

But they don't crash out with friends/relatives opposite Kelly's room on the night of her murder. It's absurdly unlikely that "Kennedy" and Lewis both did this.

Oh but they do Gareth, they most certainly do.

You're a very intelligent man, Jon, which is why I find it utterly baffling that you can continue to believe that "Kennedy" was a separate witness.

There is nothing in this case to argue otherwise.
We are even told "Kennedy" was the daughter of the people at No2. The journalist who interviewed the family cannot have been paid by Lewis to say that, surely?
Or are you saying the journalist made it up?