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  • Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post
    I know I said I wouldn't comment on this subject again, but I do find it odd that Francis Thompson makes some of the lists.

    Why?

    Apart from the fact that he was an oddball who wrote some gruesome poetry and was apparently in the East End at some point (we really don't know exactly when) what has he got going for him?
    J K Stephen was another oddball who also wrote gruesome poetry. Accordingly, he is also amongst the suspects.

    Both are better suspects than Lechmere, according to some.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post
      But what happens if he runs? Paul is immediately alerted and the idea that the women might be drunk or has died of natural causes goes out of the window. It's obvious to Paul that it must be a case of assault at least and possibly bloody murder. He starts shouting at the top of his voice, 'Police! Murder!' or whatever, and should Lechmere's escape route take him within sight or earshot of a copper, he's bang to rights. On the other hand, if Lechmere (as killer) keeps calm and takes control of the situation, initially by approaching Paul to assesses what he may have seen, he might be able to carry on his merry way without let or hindrance - as indeed he did.

      Surely there's some merit in that possibility?

      Why on earth he would later call at the police station to explain his actions is another matter altogether.
      It’s reasonable to say that Paul would have heard CL walking away but that in itself wouldn’t have made him suspicious of course. By the time that he reached the site CL could have been 30-40 yards away in the dark. In the dark Paul would have seen the shape on the ground on the other side of the road. He might not have gone over but if he hid, then had a closer look, then perhaps given her a shake to see if she responded, then perhaps checked for a pulse (this might have taken up another 30 seconds to a minute, by which time CL would have been say 100 yards away in the dark. Then if he does start shouting “police, murder” is it likely that a policeman would detain someone that he saw walking along a street 150 yards away from that distant voice?

      This option for a guilty CL surely would be preferable to calling someone over who would undoubtedly suggest that they find a constable with CL in possession of the murder weapon and ‘possibly’ with Nichols blood on him (in the dark he couldn’t be certain of being completely blood-free.) Added to that CL immediately announces himself as being alone with the body and with no one else around to suspect.
      Regards

      Herlock




      “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
      “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
      “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
      “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
      “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

      Comment


      • [QUOTE=Herlock Sholmes;450381]
        . “Pick the one detail that you think speaks loudest for his innocence, and we will scrutinize it together. ‘ [/QUOTE]

        This from you in pose #1405

        I made my point on #1417

        You made your length ‘case against’ in post #1425

        To which I responded in post #1435.

        Since then you’ve made 5 posts unconnected.

        Is that your idea of ‘scrutiny?’
        Yes, my answer to you is my idea of scrutinizing your suggestion. Scrutinize away yourself, if you are so inclined.
        Last edited by Fisherman; 06-15-2018, 05:25 AM.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
          Yes, even with the far-reaching injuries, the body should still by warm after an hour. Compare, if you will, with Eddowes who was "quite warm" 45 minutes after being found.


          of course ignoring the fact that touch is highly subjective, not just to the individual but on a case by case basis

          In 1888, medicos had had ample opportunity to observe rigom mortis and how it worked. No doubt we know more, but they knew about the logical onset times back then too.
          Sorry their information was faulty in 88, incomplete meaning that any deductions are also incomplete.
          Its not logicall onset, its factually that matters


          Steve

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Elamarna View Post
            Sorry their information was faulty in 88, incomplete meaning that any deductions are also incomplete.
            Its not logicall onset, its factually that matters


            Steve
            I don´t buy any of it for a minute. Sorry.

            Well, I buy that feeling for warmth is inexact - but not THAT inexact.
            Last edited by Fisherman; 06-15-2018, 05:24 AM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
              It’s reasonable to say that Paul would have heard CL walking away but that in itself wouldn’t have made him suspicious of course. By the time that he reached the site CL could have been 30-40 yards away in the dark. In the dark Paul would have seen the shape on the ground on the other side of the road. He might not have gone over but if he hid, then had a closer look, then perhaps given her a shake to see if she responded, then perhaps checked for a pulse (this might have taken up another 30 seconds to a minute, by which time CL would have been say 100 yards away in the dark. Then if he does start shouting “police, murder” is it likely that a policeman would detain someone that he saw walking along a street 150 yards away from that distant voice?

              This option for a guilty CL surely would be preferable to calling someone over who would undoubtedly suggest that they find a constable with CL in possession of the murder weapon and ‘possibly’ with Nichols blood on him (in the dark he couldn’t be certain of being completely blood-free.) Added to that CL immediately announces himself as being alone with the body and with no one else around to suspect.
              In your world, any person in the copper-hating East End would "undoubtedly suggest" that they go searching for a constable, in spite of how they did not even know that there was a crime involved.

              Says all.

              And these kinds of grounds and insights are what you build your picture of Andy Griffiths being "idiotic" on.

              Brrrrr!!!!!
              Last edited by Fisherman; 06-15-2018, 05:23 AM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post
                I know I said I wouldn't comment on this subject again, but I do find it odd that Francis Thompson makes some of the lists.

                Why?

                Apart from the fact that he was an oddball who wrote some gruesome poetry and was apparently in the East End at some point (we really don't know exactly when) what has he got going for him?
                I agree Gary.

                As you will remember when I first read Patterson’s book I felt that he perhaps ticked more boxes than many suspects but after reading more, after being pointed in the right direction by you, interest soon faded. There’s no real reason to suspect him in my opinion.
                Regards

                Herlock




                “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
                “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
                “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
                “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
                “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
                  In your world, any person in the copper-hating East End would "undoubtedly suggest" that they go searching for a constable, in spite of how they did not even know that there was a crime involved.

                  Says all.
                  The point is Fish, despite your blinkers, is that CL would have had to have been aware of the serious possibility, likelihood in fact, that Paul would have wanted to find a copper.

                  Or would he have assumed that Paul wouldn’t have been bothered and just hoped for a piece of luck?
                  Regards

                  Herlock




                  “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
                  “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
                  “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
                  “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
                  “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
                    I am very well aware of language issues. And I can tell you that it does not mean a iot if you remove the comme, the phrase has the exact same meaning nevertheless.

                    "More likely there was a reason, which need not be suspicious" means exactly the same as "More likely there was a reason which need not be suspicious".

                    The "which" turns the second part into a subordinate clause as effectively as any comma.
                    We disagree.

                    The fact you continue to plays this silly little games bothers me not, the vast majority understand was is meant i am sure.



                    Steve

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
                      I agree Gary.

                      As you will remember when I first read Patterson’s book I felt that he perhaps ticked more boxes than many suspects but after reading more, after being pointed in the right direction by you, interest soon faded. There’s no real reason to suspect him in my opinion.
                      Then you may listen to Gary some more, since he does see real reasons to look further into Lechmere.

                      Then again, he is just as idiotic as Griffiths was when it comes to seeing merit in the idea that Lechmere would have stayed put.

                      A hard man to judge, Gary.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
                        I don´t buy any of it for a minute. Sorry.

                        Well, I buy that feeling for warmth is inexact - but not THAT inexact.
                        Not asking you to buy it, its fact.


                        Steve

                        Comment


                        • [QUOTE=Fisherman;450395]
                          Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                          Yes, my answer to you is my idea of scrutinizing your suggestion. Scrutinize away yourself, if you are so inclined.
                          No point. The scrutiny has been done and the point won
                          Regards

                          Herlock




                          “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
                          “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
                          “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
                          “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
                          “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Elamarna View Post
                            We disagree.

                            The fact you continue to plays this silly little games bothers me not, the vast majority understand was is meant i am sure.



                            Steve
                            So, when you say that a comma is all important, and I point out that it does nothing at all to alter the meaning of the phrase - then that is me playing silly little games?

                            Here´s an alternative answer: Oh yes, I see now that you are absolutely correct - the comma does not change the meaning of what I wrote, but I hope people will see what I meant anyway".

                            I don´t. What did you mean? It seems to me that you meant that an innocent explanation is more likely than a guilty one.

                            Comment


                            • [QUOTE=Herlock Sholmes;450405]
                              Originally posted by Fisherman View Post

                              No point. The scrutiny has been done and the point won
                              Herlock, believe me - the things you have won out here, you don´t want to hear the names of.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
                                J K Stephen was another oddball who also wrote gruesome poetry. Accordingly, he is also amongst the suspects.

                                Both are better suspects than Lechmere, according to some.
                                Putting words/suggestions into the mouths of others You may have complained of that a time or two?

                                For the record JK Stephen is not a better suspect than CL purely because CL was actually in Buck’s Row (the only point in his favour.)
                                Regards

                                Herlock




                                “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
                                “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
                                “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
                                “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
                                “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

                                Comment

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