Favorite suspect/s?

[Elamarna]

My post was obviously tongue-in-cheek.

'Probably' didn't work on a Sunday?

I suspect CAL may well have carted horse flesh, and if he did, then 'probably' is probably right. But do we know that Broad Street Goods Station was either closed or handled less traffic on a Sunday? I know that LNWR men and others were agitating for a standard 6-day week in the late 19th century. And passenger trains certainly ran to and from the station 7 days a week.

Maybe they worked on a rota, or shorter hours? Without zolid evidence anything could have been the case i guess.

And while we on the subject of Broad Street, am I right in saying that Lechmere isn't actually recorded as saying he worked at that location for 20+ years? At the time he would have started working for Pickfofds they were also operating out of
Haydon Square in H Division and very close to Mitre Square. I once found a list of the names of Pickford's Haydon Square cricket team (some time in the 1860s from memory). No Cross or Lechmere listed unfortunately.

Tongue in cheek of not Gary, all issues which have to be addressed.

If he had been in the cricket team surely he cricket surely he would be some sort of mystery spinner, bamboozleing the authorities prior to the invention of the Googly.

Serious question Gary, do we k ow when Haydon Square closed?


Steve

[MrBarnett]

One other point that needs to be clarified was just how close or not Mother Lechmere was to Berner Street The impression can be that she is virtually next door (No that was the Kosminski's a few years earlier). However the reality is that depending on tbe route taken its at minimum of just over 200 yards away, or 300 yards at most. Yes it's still relatively close, However when one takes into account the geography of the murders, and the short distances involved, its not as close relatively as the impression people often get.


Steve

But Berner Street was very much on Lechmere's home turf, I'd have thought. The family lived in that part of St Geo E for 2/3 decades. CAL had grown up there - Mary Ann Street, Thomas (Pinchin Street), the north side of Cable Street, Jane Street.

The psychogeographical aspect of that intrigues me. As I mentioned before, when CAL was a boy the area delineated by Cable Street, Backchurch Lane, Commercial Road and Christian/Grove Streets contained the notorious Tiger Bay, focussed on Brunswick, Frederick, Henry and Everard Streets. By the 1880s the prostitutes had largely moved out and been replaced by poor Jewish immigrants.

[caz]

I have pointed out how Lechmere may have suggested to Paul that they should tell whichever PC they found that there was a policeman present in Bucks Row. The idea would be to guarantee that they were not detained and could walk on to their working places with no further delay.

As I asked Abby, if Paul knew that Cross told Mizen a PC was already attending to Nichols, why did he complain in his newspaper account that the poor woman had been left alone on the street, dead and cold, while Mizen continued to knock up? He'd have been inviting Mizen to accuse both men of lying, wouldn't he?

Love,

Caz
X

[MrBarnett]

Tongue in cheek of not Gary, all issues which have to be addressed.

If he had been in the cricket team surely he cricket surely he would be some sort of mystery spinner, bamboozleing the authorities prior to the invention of the Googly.

Serious question Gary, do we k ow when Haydon Square closed?


Steve

I think Pickfords were elbowed out in the 1870's, but the LNWR goods depot was still operational in the early 20th century I believe. I'm not at home at the mo, so I don't have my Pickfords books to hand to check the date. I'll check it for you next week. (If I forget give me a prod!)

An interesting fact about Haydon Square is that if you found yourself in Mitre Square and wanted to exit the City ASAP, that's pretty much where you'd find yourself. Church Street/Minories, just below Aldgate High Street and quite close to Goulston Street.

[Elamarna]

But Berner Street was very much on Lechmere's home turf, I'd have thought. The family lived in that part of St Geo E for 2/3 decades. CAL had grown up there - Mary Ann Street, Thomas (Pinchin Street), the north side of Cable Street, Jane Street.

The psychogeographical aspect of that intrigues me. As I mentioned before, when CAL was a boy the area delineated by Cable Street, Backchurch Lane, Commercial Road and Christian/Grove Streets contained the notorious Tiger Bay, focussed on Brunswick, Frederick, Henry and Everard Streets. By the 1880s the prostitutes had largely moved out and been replaced by poor Jewish immigrants.

Not disagreeing with any of that Gary. Merely pointing out that the location is not unique to Cross/Lechmere.


Steve

[Elamarna]

I think Pickfords were elbowed out in the 1870's, but the LNWR goods depot was still operational in the early 20th century I believe. I'm not at home at the mo, so I don't have my Pickfords books to hand to check the date. I'll check it for you next week. (If I forget give me a prod!)

An interesting fact about Haydon Square is that if you found yourself in Mitre Square and wanted to exit the City ASAP, that's pretty much where you'd find yourself. Church Street/Minories, just below Aldgate High Street and quite close to Goulston Street.

Thanks for the info Gary


Steve

[Herlock Sholmes]

As I asked Abby, if Paul knew that Cross told Mizen a PC was already attending to Nichols, why did he complain in his newspaper account that the poor woman had been left alone on the street, dead and cold, while Mizen continued to knock up? He'd have been inviting Mizen to accuse both men of lying, wouldn't he?

Love,

Caz
X

Excellent point Caz I’ll be interested to read the response.

[MrBarnett]

Not disagreeing with any of that Gary. Merely pointing out that the location is not unique to Cross/Lechmere.


Steve

I didn't think you were, Steve, but I have often wondered why, if Lechmere was the killer and was visiting his mother and daughter in Cable Street (I think that's right?) on the night of the double event, he came to be in Berner Street. That's not on an obvious route home to Doveton Street, nor was Berner Street itself an obvious place to look for prostitutes as far as I'm aware.

[Elamarna]

I didn't think you were, Steve, but I have often wondered why, if Lechmere was the killer and was visiting his mother and daughter in Cable Street (I think that's right?) on the night of the double event, he came to be in Berner Street. That's not on an obvious route home to Doveton Street, nor was Berner Street itself an obvious place to look for prostitutes as far as I'm aware.

Once again i am forced to agree. Proximity should not be seen as explanation on its own for a possible trip to Berner Street , and certainly not for the proposed journey to Mitre Square.

Steve

[packers stem]

Once again i am forced to agree. Proximity should not be seen as explanation on its own for a possible trip to Berner Street , and certainly not for the proposed journey to Mitre Square.

Steve

Maybe he decided to buy some grapes for mother ....

[Elamarna]

Maybe he decided to buy some grapes for mother ....

That would mean he never went to his mum, or he is buying them after he leaves.


Steve

[Herlock Sholmes]

Or maybe he was at home tucked up in bed with Mrs Lech when all this happened

[packers stem]

Or maybe he was at home tucked up in bed with Mrs Lech when all this happened

That would be my guess .....

[Sam Flynn]

Or maybe he was at home tucked up in bed with Mrs Lech

His mother? The sick bastard.

[Herlock Sholmes]

His mother? The sick bastard.

Maybe it explains his hatred of women