Ripper Facts

[Elamarna]

I wouldnt take to much notice of that, its not to be totally relied on. It comes from the book "A Pinstickers guide to profiling" written by "Anybody done it"

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Dear Trevor

That’s a really professional critical review is it not ?

It must really help Craig in his research, which given what he as set himself to do must surely be admired for the work involved.

Won't debate the pros and cons of the work, that is not the issue, but if you are going to criticise it at least give something meaningful.

That's not meant as an attack on you Trevor, the same applies to others too, but please just consider the words you use, and how helpful they may be before doing it

Respectfully


Steve

[Trevor Marriott]

Dear Trevor

That’s a really professional critical review is it not ?

It must really help Craig in his research, which given what he as set himself to do must surely be admired for the work involved.

Won't debate the pros and cons of the work, that is not the issue, but if you are going to criticise it at least give something meaningful.

That's not meant as an attack on you Trevor, the same applies to others too, but please just consider the words you use, and how helpful they may be before doing it

Respectfully


Steve

Hi Steve
I think it is important to make new researchers aware of the dangers of readily accepting facts etc which are known to be misleading.

We even see seasoned researchers guilty of the same.

Even today criminal profiling is at time nothing more than guesswork.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Craig H]

Hi Trevor

If the FBI - a respected intelligence organisation - think profiling has merit; then I think it is a credible option to consider.

It has as much credibility as other assumptions others use on this forum.

Let's not derail this thread with ridiculing an approach that many think is valid.

Back to my original request .... I would appreciate any suggestions on how to find out if Neal worked as a surgeon somewhere. Is there online records of a medical register ?

Craig

[Elamarna]

Hi Steve
I think it is important to make new researchers aware of the dangers of readily accepting facts etc which are known to be misleading.

We even see seasoned researchers guilty of the same.

Even today criminal profiling is at time nothing more than guesswork.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Trevor

that may be true, my point was about expressing that meaningfully, sure all will take it on board.

cheers

Steve

[David Orsam]

Back to my original request .... I would appreciate any suggestions on how to find out if Neal worked as a surgeon somewhere. Is there online records of a medical register ?

Not online I don't think but medical registers from the period are held in the British Library and in some medical libraries.

[Pierre]

I don't have any wacky theories-I keep an open mind and consider all things-except wacky theories-like feiganbaum as the ripper or the organs of the ripper victims were removed by somebody else other than the ripper-sound familiar???LOL!

you've already used this lame cliché insult on me before Trevor. Your not even intelligent in your insults.

Hi Abby,

I don´t understand that idea of someone else removing the organs. Could you please explain it to me?

Regards, Pierre

[Debra A]

Hi Craig,

Benjamin seems to be a bit of a man of mystery.
I couldn't see him in the Medical Registers on a quick glance, I even checked using the surname 'Neale' but I will have a more thorough look if I get chance.

There was a doctor named Benjamin Neal working in the US in early 1888 but I can't say whether it is the same man or not.

Do you have his marriage details to Sarah to hand too? I saw you mention it but I can't seem to locate that marriage myself. Thanks

Debs

[Craig H]

Benjamin Thomas Neal

Some more information on Benjamin which paints an interesting picture of him.

Benjamin

Benjamin Thomas (bn June qtr, 1849 – BMD). In 1871 Census (surname mis-spelt as “Noall”) he was an Assistant and chemist in London on High Holborn St, Finsbury.

In 1881 Census he is a medical student, married, living with wife Sarah Ann Esther (nee Burrell) at 15 Osnaburgh Street, Regents Park. I can’t find his marriage details on BMD. It would be good to identify where he was studying.

In 1891 Census, he is a surgeon, but a lodger at District Charles William Mowl Victoria Home (39-41 Commercial Street, corner of Wentworth Street.). As Joshua Rogan posted above, this was a low quality lodging house mainly used by labourers. Certainly not expected for a surgeon.

I’m trying to find any records of him practising as a surgeon. Debs posted above she can’t find him on the Medical Register.

Interestingly, Benjamin is listed on the 1891 Census as “Single”. In the Census, his wife Sarah is living with her mother Catherine Burrell in Suffolk (near where she was born). Sarah had no children with Benjamin.

Benjamin died in 1899 (BMD) in Staffordshire, which is where his brother Raglan lived. I’ll get the death certificate to identify cause.

His Family

His father was Thomas Neal – a painter / decorator / builder – who lived with wife Charlotte in Sheraton Magna. Wiltshire which appears to be a small country town.

They had 6 children.

Alice Elizabeth (bn abt 1849) moved to London and married Lias Berry – a joiner – in October 1872 in St Marylebone. In 1891 Census they were living in Somers Town, St Pancras. No children.

Catherine Tyler (bn 1852) moved to London and married Alfred John King in 1871. In 1881 Census, they are living in St Giles, Berkshire with 3 kids; in 1891 Census in Worcestire with 8 kids.

Duncan (bn 1853) and Moses (bn 1858) stayed closer to home. In 1881 Census, Duncan was a house painter (father’s job) living at home with parents. In 1891 Census, both Duncan and Moses were Veterinary Surgeons living together at home town, Sherston Magna. Again, 1901 and 1911 Census has them both as vet surgeons, living together – both in their 50’s in 1911.

Raglan (bn 1855) was a publican in 1901 and 1911 Census in Staffordshire with wife Minnie Elizabeth and 3 kids.

Benjamin’s wife was Sarah Ann Esther Burrell, born June 1856 in Bramfield Suffolk, parents Samuel (a cattle dealer) and Catherine.

Why he could be a suspect

As mentioned above, based upon what we know (or think we know) about the Ripper, he was :

• Aged 28 – 35 years old in 1888 (witness statements PC Smith, Lawende)
• English
• Likely to have surgical skills or anatomy knowledge (coroners)
• Likely to live in Whitechapel (geographical profiling – also the lines from Eddowes site to Goulston Street, and Stride site to Church Lane suggest he was heading in that direction; likely he knew victims as they all lived in close proximity)
• Likely to be single or living on own (FBI profile)

Benjamin meets this criteria (although a bit older – 39 years old).

I’m thinking he was a failed medical student as no evidence of him actually practising. However, he kept seeing himself as a surgeon (which is how he described himself in 1891 Census).

I suspect his marriage was not good. They were living apart in 1891 and no children.

His lodging house (if that’s where he was in 1888) was close to where the victims lived. Maybe he knew them socially through bars or knew them by sight.

His motive may have been to show the world he was a surgeon (it must have been irritating that his brothers Duncan and Moses were veterinary surgeons). The Ripper showed surgical skills and removed organs.

His father died in March 1886 – which may have been a trigger.

I know this is all speculation … but hopefully worthy of more research.

[jerryd]

Keep it going, Craig. Well done!

[jerryd]

I believe the Victoria Home required a person to be in by 1 a.m or they were turned away. Unless they had a special pass. They had a few other strict requirements IIRC. Would that put a damper on someone not having a regular bolthole to return to after a kill?

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi Trevor

If the FBI - a respected intelligence organisation - think profiling has merit; then I think it is a credible option to consider.

It has as much credibility as other assumptions others use on this forum.

Let's not derail this thread with ridiculing an approach that many think is valid.

Back to my original request .... I would appreciate any suggestions on how to find out if Neal worked as a surgeon somewhere. Is there online records of a medical register ?

Craig

Can you not see that a wrong profile will create a false trail.

Seeing as you are so keen on research, you might want to read what your respected FBI say in this report about serial killers including profiling.

https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/serial-murder

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Debra A]

Marriages Dec 1877
BURRELL Sarah Annie E Aston 6d 549
Grove Sarah Hannah Aston 6d 549
Haines George Aston 6d 549
Neale Benjamin Thomas M Aston 6d 549

[Craig H]

Hi Debs
Good find. I wonder why they married in Aston , Warwickshire. ? I'll see if any relatives there
Craig

[Craig H]

Can you not see that a wrong profile will create a false trail.

Seeing as you are so keen on research, you might want to read what your respected FBI say in this report about serial killers including profiling.

https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/serial-murder

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Hi Trevor
Thanks for the FBI link. Will read tonight.
You may be right and my assumptions are wrong. However, that's all any of us can do due to the tyranny of time. We make assumptions and test them. I don't think mine are crazy or unfounded.
The next step would be to find any evidence of where he studied medicine or worked. Appreciate any help
All the best
Craig

[Craig H]

I believe the Victoria Home required a person to be in by 1 a.m or they were turned away. Unless they had a special pass. They had a few other strict requirements IIRC. Would that put a damper on someone not having a regular bolthole to return to after a kill?

Hi Jerry
Good to hear from you. Thanks for that
Does that mean that house was just used by people for short stays - several nights at a time ? Or could people stay longer ? I don't know much about lodging houses
All the best
Craig