Ripper Facts

[Debra A]

Hi David
Thanks for the advice on medical records and criminal records.
So is the only way to access the medical register for 1880 - 18882 to go to the British Library in London ?
All the best

Craig

Hi Craig

The Wellcome Library holds some runs. They lists Library Holdings


1859 ; 1862-1883 ; 1885 ; 1895 ; 1917 ; 1926 ; 1930 ; 1932-1962 ; 1964-1968 ; 1969 (part 3) ; 1970-1980 ; 1982-1984 ; 1989 ; 1999-2003.
Location Open shelves

The records on Ancestry have only been digitised in 4 year intervals although the registers were produced annually. In 1891 Neal was listed as 'surgeon' so might reasonably expected to be in the 1891 directory, although it might have been compiled in 1890.

With looking for exam pass announcements in the papers I'd check by the surname Neal and Neale and use the keyword 'surgery' ; 'my' logic being that describing himself as a 'surgeon' in 1891 he'd have had to pass an exam in surgery between 1881, when he's listed as a student, and 1891, if he was legitimate.

[Craig H]

Many thx Debs, will look at this
Craig

[Debra A]

Hi Craig
This is an OCR from the Genes Reunited site. I don't have access to the site or the Bristol newspaper the 'Western Daily press' but perhaps someone else on here does? It looks like Benjamin T M Neale passed his preliminary exams in 1876 at least:

Western Daily Press Bristol, England
3 Nov 1876

THE MUNICIPAL ELECTIONS
to-night pw«» Belle Helene,- one of' the brightest and elevens. Oi'enbaoh's comic operas. Mr Benjamin Thomas Mills Neale, 3<», '' * Neale, te, of Sherston and f imm ml passed his preliminary examination anil . his professional studies the University Hospital

[drstrange169]

Here it is ...

[DJA]

where do I search for criminal record ??
Craig

http://www.exclassics.com/newgate/ng718.htm

Might run in the family

[Debra A]

Here it is ...

Thanks very much for posting that, Dusty.

[drstrange169]

My pleasure Debra.

Whether he is a credible suspect or not, it's always fascinating rescuing someone forgotten by history and learning their story.

[Debra A]

My pleasure Debra.

Whether he is a credible suspect or not, it's always fascinating rescuing someone forgotten by history and learning their story.

Yes, I find it all fascinating too...even though Craig doesn't seem interested anymore!

[Craig H]

Hi Debra and Dusty

Sorry for my delay in responding – haven’t had much time to check forum last few days.

Great find ….. this is becoming more interesting.

We now know he finished his preliminary exams in November 1876 at University College of London which is in Gower Street, Fitzrovia.

This is close to Regent’s Park where he was staying as a medical student in 1881 Census.

Interesting that the press announcement lists his father Thomas as a chemist, when he was actually a painter or builder.

In 1871 Census, Benjamin was living at 300 High Holborn, where he stated his occupation as an “Assistant and Chemist”

I keep coming back to the previous post / thread on Sugden’s find of a man called Morford who pledged his surgical instruments to a pawnbroker who claimed the man seemed suspicious. This person was lodging on Great Ormond Street and left suddenly.

Sugden found the only person with a similar name was John Orford at Senior Medical Officer at Royal Free Hospital, Gray’s Inn Road

Does anyone know where in Gray’s Inn Road this hospital was in 1888 ? In Google Maps, Royal Free Hospital is now located in another area.

It appears highly unlikely that John Orford was the doctor who had “lost his way” that the pawnbroker described as Orford was in a senior role at the Hospital.

I wonder if Neale had known Orford through their studies, and used his name to pledge his surgical instruments.

300 High Holborn (where Neale was in 1871) is close to Gray’s Inn Road. Maybe they studied together.

Not sure what it could mean ….

All the best

Craig

[Joshua Rogan]

Here you go...1895, anyway.

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=18&lat=51.5266&lon=-0.1183&layers=163

[Elamarna]

hi

according to this map 1862-1871
it slightly further north, than joshua's map but still same rough location.

so good bet it was there at the dates you want.

http://www.mappalondon.com/london/north-west/bloomsbury.jpg

Steve

[Craig H]

Thanks Joshua and Steve

[Craig H]

It would be interesting to see if John Orford studied at the same University (ie. University College of London) at the same time as Benjamin Neal.

Orford was born in 1857 in Ipswich, Suffolk (so more typical age for medical student than Benjamin).

In 1881 Census, he was a "medical student" living at Lambeth. This was south of the river - not sure if there were Universities near Lambeth where he could have studied.

There are records of Orford working as a Medical Supervisor at Royal Free Hospital in Grays Inn Road in 1888. In 1891, he had moved to Tanshelf, Yorkshire.

Craig

[Craig H]

It’s probably time to wrap up this thread as it’s gone as fare as it can.

What I tried to do was focus on what we know, or think we know, about the Ripper and use this to try and narrow down the list of potential persons of interest.

Witness statements (in particular PC Smith, Lawende and Marshall) suggest Jack was English, 28 – 35 years old, around 5’7”, pale complexion, small moustache and not working class.

It appears he lived or worked locally and knew the victims as they all lived close to each other. Many others have said he must have known the area well.

I think he must have had good social skills to be able for his victims to be comfortable with him (as seen in witness statements). I also think he gave them gifts (such as the cigarette case, bonnet and the red handkerchief)

From some of the coroners and posts from others, I think he had surgical skills. Like others, I find it hard to believe he could have made the cuts and remove organs in the dark in such short time without previous surgical experience. Also, I think his “purpose” was to remove organs and show off his skills.

I identified Benjamin Neale who met the above criteria.

That’s not to say I think Neale is the Ripper. There is nothing to suggest he had any motive. He is more likely to simply be a surgeon who fell on hard times.

However it makes you think that the Ripper may be someone who has been an unknown, and was not an identified person of interest by police at the time.

[Tom_Wescott]

What I tried to do was focus on what we know, or think we know, about the Ripper and use this to try and narrow down the list of potential persons of interest.

We got so distracted on side discussions that we barely scratched the surface.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott