Reasons why?

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Can you imagine how little of this case would be left if we threw out everything for which we only have one source?

How much of what Macnaghten wrote would you hold onto?

[Wickerman]

Can you imagine how little of this case would be left if we threw out everything for which we only have one source?

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

There is no way to know the cause of the Druitt family suspicions. We simply must accept that.

On the contrary, there is no evidence that Druitt's relatives had any suspicions.

We should not accept an unsupported allegation that they did.

However, we may presume those suspicions were real.

There is no evidence that they were.

We should not presume something for which there is no evidence.

They were likely reported to Macnaghten by someone close to the family, close either in proximity or by friendship or perhaps both.

There is no evidence to support your statement other than Macnaghten's say-so.

And that is not worth very much.

As Dougue says, this kind of suspicion from one's own family is not something to be taken lightly. There must have been some compelling reason for this suspicion.

That is an unfounded assumption.

There is no evidence to support it.



Macnaghten made about a dozen factual errors in his Memoranda.

Why on earth is he regarded as a reliable source?

And why are his claims about Druitt being suspected being treated as true by some, when Anderson's categorical claim that a Polish Jewish suspect was positively identified by a witness as the murderer is being treated as true by others?

What are the chances that both claims are true?

Is it not much more likely that what we are dealing with is two boastful senior policemen claiming to know much more than they actually did, just like du Rose several decades later?

[ella090]

Surely the point that Dougie is trying to make is that even if someone has been studying JTR for a year, can still be able to create his/her own relevant opinion on the case.

It has been years that people have been trying to solve this mystery whether its been 50 years to 6 months. The point is that everyone has the ability to make an impact on this mystery.

I have been studying JTR for years but I find the thoughts and comments given on this forum very interesting no matter how much "research" people have done. - And by the by, I think if people didn't read other peoples books on JTR then there would be very little to talk about. Its how people gain a point of view on the subject and its just as important as your own research.

[aspallek]

Oops, I see the question I just raised about the cricket match is already addressed on the neighboring thread "Is it plausible that Druitt did it?" Ah well, it is indeed a question that bears serious consideration.

Yes it does, but the cricket match didn't start until 11 or 11:30, as I recall, so he would not have had to hurry. It is also worthy of note that he fared poorly in the match. Finally, with a guilty conscience he might have felt the need to participate in the fixture in order to avoid suspicion.

[aspallek]

Hi caz,

Maybe. But I think it more likely that the family would have assumed the police would soon figure out that the killings had ceased and thus step down their investigation. I think it would have been more important to them to protect the family name that to alert the police and suggest they call off their search. They probably also realized that mere family suspicion would not be enough to call off the investigation, anyway.

[caz]

While the Druitt family was wondering about Montague, they got word that he had gone missing and then of his death. No need to contact authorities about their suspicions now...

Hi Andy,

No need, except that the authorities would be left indefinitely to presume the killer was still at large and could strike again at any time. If the family had been prepared to give up one of their own to the authorities (unlike Anderson’s low-class Polish Jews ) and see him dangling at the end of a rope, would they not have been equally public spirited after his early bath, seeking to reassure the police and public as soon as possible that the danger was past?

Love,

Caz
X

[kensei]

Oops, I see the question I just raised about the cricket match is already addressed on the neighboring thread "Is it plausible that Druitt did it?" Ah well, it is indeed a question that bears serious consideration.

[kensei]

Hi everyone, I started this thread with a simple question, and just thought I'd pop in here again with a somewhat more involved one. I have read that Druitt was playing in a cricket match on the morning that Annie Chapman was murdered. My memory may be faulty but I think I recall that the match started around ten a.m. and Annie was killed at around 5:30 a.m. with dawn just beginning to lighten the sky. Is it really plausible that Jack the Ripper, after hunting for a victim and not finding one until nearly dawn, then proceeded to do all that was done to Annie, make off with certain parts of her anatomy and then have to figure out what to do with them, come down from the emotional high of the kill as well as cleaning himself up, and then just a few hours after the murder and with NO SLEEP said to himself, "Ok, time to hurry off to my cricket match?"

I'm an ignorant American, but I understand cricket matches tend to be very long.

[Johnr]

Brought over from other thread:

Thanks Dougie,
As an ancient ," blind " pro-Druittist, in answer to your request and my offer
, here is a summary of my "possible- guilt " scenario:
(1) First cannonical murder was committed on St Cuthberga's Day, 31st
August.
St Cuthberga was the patron saint of Wimborne Minster Montague Druitt's
home town church.Stained glass windows in Wimborne Minster donated by
the Druitt family include one of St Cuthberga.
(2) Montague Druitt's funeral was attended by his uncle Mt Homer.A well
known pig breeder.
It has sometimes been suggested that JTR had had prior experience at
ripping open carcases or had medical knowledge.
The attendance of Mr Homer amongst the very few at MJD's funeral
suggests a possible closeness to nephew Monty.Could Monty have spent
his childhood school holidays from boarding school at the large pig farm of
Uncle Homer? Could he have been given the opportunity to slit open and
slaughter pigs on these occasions?
(3) Young middle class men did frequent the music halls and stews of the
notorious East End in the LVP.It was called "slumming".
Despite opinions by some posters, middle class professionals and particularly
red-blooded sporting lads like Druitt, frequently went "up East" for a spot of
music hall and Cockney pub frivolity.These lads did much drinking. And who
knows where they drifted off to later in the night? Or early morning?
As for playing cricket so soon afterwards..There are several serial killer
cases where the murderer has returned to the cosy familiarity of the
marital home or gone off to indulge in their regular pursuit, after a night of
secret mayhem and murder.Why, Mafia gunmen in the U.S. boasted of
returning to their family's bosom after shooting someone.

(4) Illogically, I still think the Steve White press story points to Druitt.
The Dundee Peoples Journal article about Steve White's brief encounter
with a supposed JTR, despite the best efforts of logical, experienced
researchers like Grey Hunter to dissuade me,still strikes me as an unusual
but close description of Montague Druitt. At the time, police were talking
more about East End emigres as possible murderers. Except of course, the
doctor suspects.
(5) Also illogically, I think Mitre Square holds the key to suspecting Druitt.
Because the local prostitutes thought it was safe to take their clients to
Mitre Square for some good old "horizontal dancing", this doesn't square
with the much-vaunted vigilance of coppers on the beat, and ex-policemen
acting as wharehouse caretakers.Let alone the heavy slumbers of a
policeman residing on the spot. Somethings wrong with evidence given at
the Inquest.
I still think the Foster sketch shows at point "A" the exact spot Steve
White's PC stood when he came out of the resident PC's house, when he
hollered out to the night watchman.Having seen the body (marked spot "B"
on Fosters sketch).

Enough to be going on with. Hope I haven't tangentised this thread.
JOHN RUFFELS.

[aspallek]

Debra,

No quarrels. I believe we mean the same thing about Macnaghten's involvement.

Graham,

Actually, it is not only the Macnaghten memorandum that ties Druitt to JtR. While only Macnaghten names him there is a source that pre-dates the memorandum. There is the "West of England MP" who said in 1891 that the Ripper was "the son of a surgeon" and that he had committed suicide after the last murder. Although there are inconsistencies in the article as well, this is too close not to be a reference Druitt, especially when you consider the source.

I do agree with your main point, however, that there is no absolutely proof of Druitt's involvement.

[dougie]

itd would be interesting to know why druitts on the list.....no reason for him to be there at all it would appear at first glance ,and as present knowledge stands......no sensible person would be convinced of his guilt based purely on his suicide,and the feelings or suspivcions of friends relatives alone. yet macnaughton appears to have been as sure as he could be .whys that? is it because there WAS evidence linking druitt to the crimes,independent of convenient suicide date and the relatives/friends suspicions? and were those relatives suspicions merely the "icing on the cake" to macnaughton? circumstial evidence to add to the evidence he allready had/knew of?
i would say to discount druitt would be a rash act at this time...and more importantly unjustified...... totally unjustified.
regards

[dougie]

Hi Andy


Hi Dougie

...I believe microfilm has the capability having seen it for myself this weekend....lethal things they are!
I think I was trying to back up what said Dan in a way, there is no snobbery involved, ,having witnessed first hand the time, effort and expense that a lot of 'researchers' go to to trying and sort out the dross of the case I think people who claim that a person who reads one book (researched by someone else btw) could come up with something new is ludicrous....how are they going to find anything new unless they are looking?....and then they fall into the category of researcher don't they?!

debra,
Not necessarily do they fall under the category of researchers ..no.....chance discovery is just that..chance...i could find a gold kruggerand stuffed down the back of fluffy chair at a boot sale...unlikely tho that might well be...it could happen,and..i wouldnt necessarilly have to be looking for a gold krugerrand when i found it would i? so no its not ludicrous at all....and i disagree, there is much snobbery in this business...ive seen it first hand,and thats not obnly on this forum.....
to research is not always to find,sometimes the "amatuer" (in any field) can take the direct route to a solution quietly ,while the "pro" might take a circuitious route ,find nothing,but still inform his minions of his travels. sorry but im no respecter of reputations,so i guess well have to agree to disagree.
regards

Hello all,

When you are faced with equal amounts of evidence available to justify accusing anyone being a legitimate suspect, which is none... beyond bare-bones circumstantial, then Druitt belongs as much as anyone on the suspects list. I would think that is the only reason to support Macnaughten's allegations about him anyway.

Although very new to the study, it seemed pretty clear early on that any opinions offered by any of the Senior Officials on Suspects, at the time of the killings or after, should be taken with caution...as there is no proof to support any of their allegations presented. I think the only real clues lie in the medical opinions, as the "proof" of their opinions is in their documented analysis of the wounds.

And we all know the Post Mortems are only a piece of the puzzle.

I think its important when discussing these characters that we do not hold any suspect opinion too credible, because no-one is wrong when questioning their suppositions and innuendo. The "Memorandum" is entitled in self-explanatory fashion...they are thoughts and notes. No proof of anything.

My best regards all.

[Rob Clack]

Hi Debs,

Sounds a bit to much like common sense what you are saying there .

I don't know why people seem to think Macnaughten is the dogs bollocks, a lot of his facts are wrong, Ostrog wasn't even in the country is a massive bloomer. He comes across as a very unreliable person and frankly everything he says should be treated with caution.

Yeah, microfilm is highly dangerous and should be treated with extreme caution.

Rob