Lack of Threads

[Fisherman]

To be honest Fisherman l doubt the majority of people on this site would be particularly positive about what they think of you. I could of course be wrong and I'd put money on many thinking you were misguided.

Cheers John

So you could be wrong, eh? You are simply guessing away, is that it? And that does not stop you from concluding that people dislike me...?

Thatīs very interesting. And quite revealing. Thank you, John.

[CommercialRoadWanderer]

This post is a good starting point for a pedagogical exercise...

Frankly, i think that the depositions of all the characters involved in that night are way too much convoluted to take for granted that some are more believable than others for whatever reason. I would rather think that if the police apparently did not consider Lechmere (or Paul, for what matters) as a solid suspect, it's possibly because they were not sure that Mizen was to be completely trusted in remembering exactly what happened and what was told.

[Fisherman]

Frankly, i think that the depositions of all the characters involved in that night are way too much convoluted to take for granted that some are more believable than others for whatever reason. I would rather think that if the police apparently did not consider Lechmere (or Paul, for what matters) as a solid suspect, it's possibly because they were not sure that Mizen was to be completely trusted in remembering exactly what happened and what was told.

Other policemen were raked over the coals, like for example Alfred Long and Abberline/Spratling when admitting that they had not spoken to more than a fraction of the Bucks Row dwellers.
Mizen was not reprimanded in any way.

Why would Mizens superiors not trust their own man, who had certainly taken down the events of the night in his notebook and who was therefore likely to have gotten it right?

I am not saying that you are wrong - on the contrary, if they had believed a 100 per cent that Mizen must have gotten it right, they would probably have delved deeper into the carmans story. But I think the view that Mizen would somehow feel that he had to cover his behind is nonsense. He did nothing wrong, and he was never reprimanded, end of.

Whether or not we can "take for granted" that some of the actors in the drama were more truthful than others is an open question. I am actually not saying that we must trust a seasoned PC with an excellent service record over a carman who did not present himself by the name he otherwise used in official contexts. I could, and I would have a fair point, but I donīt. I am instead pointing to how there is a long chain of anomalies connected to Charles Lechmere that seems to point to him lying about his role.

If these matters had all been crystal clear, the case would have been closed. As it is, the door must be kept ajar, but Lechmere nevertheless remains the best bid there is for the killers role.

And that is to an extent due to how he was found alone with a freshly killed victim, which was what I tried to explain to you in my last, long post. For some reason, you seemingly chose to avoid that topic?

[John Wheat]

So you could be wrong, eh? You are simply guessing away, is that it? And that does not stop you from concluding that people dislike me...?

Thatīs very interesting. And quite revealing. Thank you, John.

Well you did ask twice Fisherman. Its just the impression I get. I never said people dislike you. I just said it probably wouldn't be positive there is a difference.

Cheers John

[Fisherman]

Well you did ask twice Fisherman. Its just the impression I get. I never said people dislike you. I just said it probably wouldn't be positive there is a difference.

Cheers John

There is no difference in how you make it your business to guess on peoples behalf what they think of me. I think it is unsound, quite simply.

[CommercialRoadWanderer]

Other policemen were raked over the coals, like for example Alfred Long and Abberline/Spratling when admitting that they had not spoken to more than a fraction of the Bucks Row dwellers.
Mizen was not reprimanded in any way.

Why would Mizens superiors not trust their own man, who had certainly taken down the events of the night in his notebook and who was therefore likely to have gotten it right?

If there is the certainty that Mizen has clearly said or, better still, wrote down that he met two people instead of one, and that Lechmere indeed and literally told him that there was a policemen waiting for him, instead than just Mizen somehow getting that this must have been the case, i would like to know it. But, at least for me, to say that the certainty is there because the police did not reprimand him, is not enough.

[Columbo]

[QUOTE=GUT;380345]

Long ago.

In fact if Pierre gave us a name now, I'd want a lot more before I even looked at the name.

The one thing he has convinced me if, it that he knows very little in spite of his claimed brilliance in almost any field that comes up.

I bet it's Van Gogh. Or Le Pétomane the french flatulist. Tell me it's him Pierre!

Columbo

[John Wheat]

There is no difference in how you make it your business to guess on peoples behalf what they think of me. I think it is unsound, quite simply.

Well why ask then? To answer I was forced into making it my business. Considering how long you have been posting on the site, reading posts etc I would have thought you'd have a fair idea about what people on the site thought of you. Obviously I was wrong on that point. I suggest getting back to the subject of the thread.

Cheers John

[Fisherman]

John Wheat: Well why ask then? To answer I was forced into making it my business.

No, John, you made it your business the second you wrote that you believed you know what people out on the boards think of me. I had nothing to do with making it your business. I you had not brought it up, so much the better - but unfortunately, you did.

Considering how long you have been posting on the site, reading posts etc I would have thought you'd have a fair idea about what people on the site thought of you. Obviously I was wrong on that point.

No, you were not. I was not asking what people think of me, I was asking what YOU think people think of me.

I suggest getting back to the subject of the thread.

I would have suggested never to leave it - but never got the chance. Of course we should return to the subject of the thread, and - if I may suggest it - never again use the board space for things like this.

[Fisherman]

If there is the certainty that Mizen has clearly said or, better still, wrote down that he met two people instead of one, and that Lechmere indeed and literally told him that there was a policemen waiting for him, instead than just Mizen somehow getting that this must have been the case, i would like to know it. But, at least for me, to say that the certainty is there because the police did not reprimand him, is not enough.

Like I said, no certainty can be reached either way.

Mizen did say that there were two men involved, but he had to be reminded about Pauls existence by the coroner, very clearly implicating that Paul played no real role in the exchange.

We can see from what happened that the interpretation that Lechmere did lie about the second PC is more likely than any misunderstanding on behalf of Mizen (I bet you will ask me aboyut that, and I donīt look forward to explaining it since it is very time- and spaceconsuming, but what the heck...)

So itīs a game of probabilitites, where Lechmere is the most probable killer, if you ask me.

[John Wheat]

John Wheat: Well why ask then? To answer I was forced into making it my business.

No, John, you made it your business the second you wrote that you believed you know what people out on the boards think of me. I had nothing to do with making it your business. I you had not brought it up, so much the better - but unfortunately, you did.

Considering how long you have been posting on the site, reading posts etc I would have thought you'd have a fair idea about what people on the site thought of you. Obviously I was wrong on that point.

No, you were not. I was not asking what people think of me, I was asking what YOU think people think of me.

I suggest getting back to the subject of the thread.

I would have suggested never to leave it - but never got the chance. Of course we should return to the subject of the thread, and - if I may suggest it - never again use the board space for things like this.

I have never proclaimed to know what people think of you. I originally inferred that you knew what people on this site thought of you. There is a difference.

Cheers John

[CommercialRoadWanderer]

Like I said, no certainty can be reached either way.

Mizen did say that there were two men involved, but he had to be reminded about Pauls existence by the coroner, very clearly implicating that Paul played no real role in the exchange.

The natural next step of such assumption would be, given that you believe that Lechmere really wanted to mislead Mizen by precisely tell him about the other policeman, to explain why Paul, that was there and know there was no other policeman, did not protest about it.

We can see from what happened that the interpretation that Lechmere did lie about the second PC is more likely than any misunderstanding on behalf of Mizen (I bet you will ask me aboyut that, and I donīt look forward to explaining it since it is very time- and spaceconsuming, but what the heck...)

So itīs a game of probabilitites, where Lechmere is the probable killer.

For me, it's more likely that the police decided that Mizen misunderstood Lechmere's words, and that was not enough to reprimand him. After all, Lechmere and Paul were both identified and were both at the inquest, so Mizen's "error" ultimately had no consequences.

However, i don't want you to repeat yourself about your theory, if you are not so inclined. I will check the other threads about it.

[Fisherman]

I have never proclaimed to know what people think of you. I originally inferred that you knew what people on this site thought of you. There is a difference.

Cheers John

And I took your advice and left the subject. Double quick. Join me,please.

[Fisherman]

CommercialRoadWanderer: The natural next step of such assumption would be, given that you believe that Lechmere really wanted to mislead Mizen by precisely tell him about the other policeman, to explain why Paul, that was there and know there was no other policeman, did not protest about it.

I am assuming that Paul was left out of the discussion - as implied by how Lechmere had to be reminded by the coroner of Pauls existence.

For me, it's more likely that the police decided that Mizen misunderstood Lechmere's words, and that was not enough to reprimand him. After all, Lechmere and Paul were both identified and were both at the inquest, so Mizen's "error" ultimately had no consequences.

Yes, there is every chance that the police kept the door open for a misunderstanding - and lost out on the potential dynamite buried within it. The police would not be the only ones to make that mistake - ripperology did the exact same for 120 years plus.

However, in don't want you to repeat yourself about your theory, if you are not so inclined. I will check the other threads about it.

No, Let me lead you through it - it may turn out to be productive! First, let me ask you which picture of the affair you think the carman gave Mizen:

A/ That he and Paul had found the woman in Bucks Row and proceeded to tell Mizen about it.
or
B/ That there had been another PC in place in Bucks Row.

[CommercialRoadWanderer]

No, Let me lead you through it - it may turn out to be productive! First, let me ask you which picture of the affair you think the carman gave Mizen:

[/B]

Well more than tell you what i think, i would like to know which version is the most likely true judging by the documents we got about it. For example, i readed somewhere that Mizen talked with Paul, that Paul did not precisely tell Mizen that she believe the woman was dead, while Lechmere did, and so on.

If you really want my opinion about Lechmere, well, my opinion is that i can't really get why Lechmere, given that he was the murderer, did not simply hide or ran when he understood Paul to be heading his way, but instead decided to point him to the corpse, and, no less, to go with him toward Mizen...while probably holding a bloody weapon on himself.

It's infact absolutely normal that the common opinion is that the Ripper was elsewhere and just sneaked away through the darkness.