Lack of Threads

[John Wheat]

Is there anything to say that Lechmere did NOT have violent tendencies?

Correct - there is not. It is and remains an unwritten chapter. There are numerous examples of serialists who made their surroundings go "What? HIM!!??" when found out, so you cannot make any point about it. It is totally moot.

We know that there was Lipski graffito in the East End, and we may safely bank on there having been Ripper graffito in many places. Graffito is a sort of societal comment board message, expanding on the trends of the day.

Therre will have been hundreds of people who claimed to be the Ripper during the scare. These things are not in any way indicative of being the real thing - it is a common kind of background music that is played in these kinds of cases, quite simply.

I don't think we can safely bank on there being graffito about the Ripper all over the place. The fact is the only recordered instances of this sort of graffito were at Bury's place. Yes the place of a Ripper suspect. No other suspects have graffito linked to them. I still think there is a strong possibility Lechmere was investigated at the time but obviously it suits you to think he wasn't.

[Fisherman]

I don't think we can safely bank on there being graffito about the Ripper all over the place. The fact is the only recordered instances of this sort of graffito were at Bury's place. Yes the place of a Ripper suspect. No other suspects have graffito linked to them. I still think there is a strong possibility Lechmere was investigated at the time but obviously it suits you to think he wasn't.

It does not "suit" me, John. I have worked a lot with the case, I have spent a lot of time and effort and I like to think that I have done so in a useful manner. I am not very happy about the kind of hints you produce.

We know that the carman was presented as Charles Cross in the police reports. It is perfectly obvious that this was not the name he otherwise used in an official capacity. It is therefore quite rational to conclude that the police did not look into him deep enough to find out his real name.
It has nothing to do with what "suits" me.

If the police had been aware that he was actually Charles Allen Lechmere, I would be very interested to know why they did not call him Charles Allen Lechmere in their reports. Were they that anxious not to be able to research him in the future, should the need arise?

As for the graffito, yu are in the fortunate position that I cannot prove my case. But I CAN lay down that the talk of the town is what normally ends up as graffito, so the writing is on the wall in a double capacity.

Could it be that it "suits" you not to acknowledge this, John? Do you imagine a situation where hundreds of fake Ripper letters were written, were thousands of letters to the editor were sent to the papers about the Ripper - but where nobody came up with the idea of chalking it...?

We do our work in very different manners, donīt we? Letīs see how you solve this one: If the police knew his real name after having researched him, then why did they not use it in their internal reports? A "suitable" answer is required.

[Columbo]

Bury didn't confess to killing his wife. There is also nothing to say Lechmere had violent tendencies. Its a fact that the graffito was found at Bury's place. Its worth noting that no other instances of this sort of graffito have been noted down.

Actually, Bury wrote out a confession before his execution and gave it to his Pastor. So yes he did confess saying they were fighting over money while drunk.

I believe the police and newspapers reported alot of JTR graffito talking about how many killed and how many to be killed etc,. IMO the graffito at Bury's was probably written by some kid he got nasty with while drunk and it was a form of retaliation.

If you think it was written by his wife, she could've just turned him in and left. She apparently had some means to get away from him.

I couldn't tell you if Lechmere had violent tendencies or not. He didn't necessarily have to be a drunken wife beater or anything along those lines. It might very well have been in his mind for years and he finally took action on it.


Columbo

[Joshua Rogan]

Graffito

In his memoirs, Walter Dew made the following comment;

"After the lapse of so many years I find it difficult to say just when the name of Jack the Ripper became associated with the Whitechapel murders, but it was certainly in the early days of the mystery.

The name originated from the messages chalked on the walls, and the many letters received by the police and others bearing this terrifying signature. It fitted, and because it fitted, it stuck. Even to this day it lives in the minds of many as a symbol of fear and horror."

This sounds to me as if there was JTR graffiti about, although it has to be said that Dew was writing 50 years after the events.

[Harry D]

The lack of throat-cutting is not necessarily an issue with Bury as a suspect. The Ripper was striking on the streets or in other risky locations where he needed to silence the victim immediately to avoid detection and perform the mutilations. William Bury killed Ellen in the 'comfort' of their basement flat. He didn't need to worry about a passer-by or someone peeping through the hole in the window like at Miller's Court.

[Fisherman]

I couldn't tell you if Lechmere had violent tendencies or not. He didn't necessarily have to be a drunken wife beater or anything along those lines. It might very well have been in his mind for years and he finally took action on it.

Columbo

A wise enough reflection, Columbo - and once again, we have Peter Kürten as an interesting example. He killed women in the most horrendeous ways, enjoying their suffering, but he treated his wife as a princess. They had no sex life, but he was very affectionate towards her.
And Gary Ridgways wife said that she had never met a better man than her husband.
Etcetera, etcetera.

So being a loving family man and a horrific serialist are two quite comparable extremes that can be found within the same person.

[Fisherman]

In his memoirs, Walter Dew made the following comment;

"After the lapse of so many years I find it difficult to say just when the name of Jack the Ripper became associated with the Whitechapel murders, but it was certainly in the early days of the mystery.

The name originated from the messages chalked on the walls, and the many letters received by the police and others bearing this terrifying signature. It fitted, and because it fitted, it stuck. Even to this day it lives in the minds of many as a symbol of fear and horror."

This sounds to me as if there was JTR graffiti about, although it has to be said that Dew was writing 50 years after the events.

There we are then! I think that John Wheat is the only one genuinely perplexed by this...

[Fisherman]

The lack of throat-cutting is not necessarily an issue with Bury as a suspect. The Ripper was striking on the streets or in other risky locations where he needed to silence the victim immediately to avoid detection and perform the mutilations. William Bury killed Ellen in the 'comfort' of their basement flat. He didn't need to worry about a passer-by or someone peeping through the hole in the window like at Miller's Court.

... so he did not mind if she cried her heart out? Were the walls and windows isolated so as not to let any sound through?

Also, keep in mind that Polly Nichols seemingly had her abdomen cut BEFORE the neck was cut. Or so Llewellyn said, at least, but maybe we can drop that...?

[John Wheat]

It does not "suit" me, John. I have worked a lot with the case, I have spent a lot of time and effort and I like to think that I have done so in a useful manner. I am not very happy about the kind of hints you produce.

We know that the carman was presented as Charles Cross in the police reports. It is perfectly obvious that this was not the name he otherwise used in an official capacity. It is therefore quite rational to conclude that the police did not look into him deep enough to find out his real name.
It has nothing to do with what "suits" me.

If the police had been aware that he was actually Charles Allen Lechmere, I would be very interested to know why they did not call him Charles Allen Lechmere in their reports. Were they that anxious not to be able to research him in the future, should the need arise?

As for the graffito, yu are in the fortunate position that I cannot prove my case. But I CAN lay down that the talk of the town is what normally ends up as graffito, so the writing is on the wall in a double capacity.

Could it be that it "suits" you not to acknowledge this, John? Do you imagine a situation where hundreds of fake Ripper letters were written, were thousands of letters to the editor were sent to the papers about the Ripper - but where nobody came up with the idea of chalking it...?

We do our work in very different manners, donīt we? Letīs see how you solve this one: If the police knew his real name after having researched him, then why did they not use it in their internal reports? A "suitable" answer is required.

If your not that happy about the kind of hints I produce then you have options you could ignore them or you could ignore my posts. I don't believe your time and effort has been remotely useful. Admittedly you've maybe managed to convince one or two that Lechmere should be a suspect rather than a witness but that's about it.

[John Wheat]

Actually, Bury wrote out a confession before his execution and gave it to his Pastor. So yes he did confess saying they were fighting over money while drunk.

I believe the police and newspapers reported alot of JTR graffito talking about how many killed and how many to be killed etc,. IMO the graffito at Bury's was probably written by some kid he got nasty with while drunk and it was a form of retaliation.

If you think it was written by his wife, she could've just turned him in and left. She apparently had some means to get away from him.

I couldn't tell you if Lechmere had violent tendencies or not. He didn't necessarily have to be a drunken wife beater or anything along those lines. It might very well have been in his mind for years and he finally took action on it.


Columbo

I don't believe the graffito was written by some kid. Odds on it was written by Bury or Ellen. What makes you think Ellen was capable of getting away from Bury? The available evidence suggests that at the time of Ellen's murder Bury had squandered almost all her money. It also suggests Ellen was scared of Bury.

[Fisherman]

John Wheat: If your not that happy about the kind of hints I produce then you have options you could ignore them or you could ignore my posts.

Maybe so - but I would much prefer a civil tone from your side.

I don't believe your time and effort has been remotely useful.

Luckily, thatīs not for you to decide.

Admittedly you've maybe managed to convince one or two that Lechmere should be a suspect rather than a witness but that's about it.

Have a look at the surrounding world and the comments about the documentary.

But now you have descended down into worthless bickering about anything but the case as such, and the time has come to drop this discussion.

[John Wheat]

John Wheat: If your not that happy about the kind of hints I produce then you have options you could ignore them or you could ignore my posts.

Maybe so - but I would much prefer a civil tone from your side.

I don't believe your time and effort has been remotely useful.

Luckily, thatīs not for you to decide.

Admittedly you've maybe managed to convince one or two that Lechmere should be a suspect rather than a witness but that's about it.

Have a look at the surrounding world and the comments about the documentary.

But now you have descended down into worthless bickering about anything but the case as such, and the time has come to drop this discussion.

I would rather a non condescending tone from you but we can't have everything. As for the surrounding World the majority of this site well I'm sure you know what they think of you.

[Pierre]

[QUOTE=Fisherman;380047]

I have "come up with" lots more.

Lots more about one "connection". Lechmere - Nichols.

Built on sources with low validity and reliability.

Nothing at all connects Lechmere to Chapman, Stride, Eddowes or Kelly.

The fact is that you have come up with absolutely nothing that in any shape or form ties Bury to the Ripper case.

Bury is a better case actually. He was a murderer. Although I do not at all think he was Jack the Ripper. But a better case, having the characteristic of being "a murderer". Also, having used a knife to commit the murder.

Letīs postulate two ideal types:

A) The Murderer is the type who murders someone. If the victim was killed with a knife, the ideal type is The Murderer with a knife.

Bury was such a person.

B) The Finder of a murdered body is the type who finds a murdered body. If the person who is a finder will have his name published in the newspapers, he may not want that, and the ideal type will be The Finder who avoids getting his name published in the newspapers.

Lechmere was such a person.

Now, we can not swop A and B. And we can not impose the ideal type of A on B. So why are you trying to do that?

Also:

C) Jack the Ripper is the type of murderer who killed at least five women in Whitechapel in 1888.

Just because you do not know who he was: Why do you try to impose both A and B on Jack the Ripper?

What problem does that solve?

Regards, Pierre

[Pierre]

Well Van Gough is a better bet than Lechmere at least Van Gough cut off his ear so he obviously had violent tendencies.

If we want violent tendencies we can remain in Whitechapel. Take Henry Buckley for instance, who lived in McCarthys house. Stabbed a man in the thigh in december 1888, just after the murder on Kelly.

So he is a better bid than both Van Gogh and Lechmere. Violent tendency, lives close to one of the murder sites in the right time period.

Regards, Pierre

[Fisherman]

I would rather a non condescending tone from you but we can't have everything. As for the surrounding World the majority of this site well I'm sure you know what they think of you.

No, I donīt. Tell me!