Does anything rule Bury out?

[John Wheat]

blotchy then?

Are you totally sure blotchy wasn't Bury anyway? Blotchy skin is hardly uncommon for an alcoholic.

[Abby Normal]

Are you totally sure blotchy wasn't Bury anyway? Blotchy skin is hardly uncommon for an alcoholic.

could have been, who knows?

Do we have a good description of what Bury looked like?

[Sam Flynn]

Garbage. Yes you do and in a pompous manner.

I didn't understate the case, but called it as it is - that's not "garbage" by any means. If you can't see that, it's too bad.

[Sam Flynn]

could have been, who knows?

Do we have a good description of what Bury looked like?

Here you go, Abby:

[Abby Normal]

Here you go, Abby:

thanks Sam
Ive seen that before-I guess this is the only image of him then. I wonder when this was drawn?

[Harry D]

thanks Sam
Ive seen that before-I guess this is the only image of him then. I wonder when this was drawn?

Sketch of Bury from The Dundee Courier, 12 February 1889. He had dark hair and a beard, was 5 foot 3½ inches (1.61 m) tall, and weighed less than 10 stone (64 kg).[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Henry_Bury

[Abby Normal]

Sketch of Bury from The Dundee Courier, 12 February 1889. He had dark hair and a beard, was 5 foot 3½ inches (1.61 m) tall, and weighed less than 10 stone (64 kg).[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Henry_Bury

Thanks Harry
well I guess he must have grown that beard out since the Kelly murder.

wonder if he was trying to change his appearance?

[Sam Flynn]

well I guess he must have grown that beard out since the Kelly murder.

Judging by his chin and lower lip, it looks he may have had an elongated jaw, of the type that some men feel compelled to "minimise" by a beard. If so, it may well be the case that he'd worn that beard for many years.

[Busy Beaver]

Haven't read through everything about Bury yet, but he does seem to fit the picture. Thinking of the Stride case, Bury was a bit on the short side. Stride must have been tall compared to a few of her mates, as she was called Long Liz. The markings on her neck apparently showed her killer struggled to get her down, in which doing so could be a problem for a killer to be shorter than her. I can't really imagine Bury at 5ft 3 swinging from a 5ft 6 Liz in an attempt to pull her to the ground. It's almost the stuff of a comedy situation. Israel Swartz who is supposed to have seen "everything" would have mentioned this to the police- I saw the killer hanging of his victim, which I do not think he did. Also the Lipski call- I think that Pipeman also saw the killer, looked at him and decided he was NOT Jewish, saw Swartz who was obviously Jewish, wearing the hat and gave chase, not really knowing what was going on and then left the scene when he thought Swartz was scared enough.

[John Wheat]

Haven't read through everything about Bury yet, but he does seem to fit the picture. Thinking of the Stride case, Bury was a bit on the short side. Stride must have been tall compared to a few of her mates, as she was called Long Liz. The markings on her neck apparently showed her killer struggled to get her down, in which doing so could be a problem for a killer to be shorter than her. I can't really imagine Bury at 5ft 3 swinging from a 5ft 6 Liz in an attempt to pull her to the ground. It's almost the stuff of a comedy situation. Israel Swartz who is supposed to have seen "everything" would have mentioned this to the police- I saw the killer hanging of his victim, which I do not think he did. Also the Lipski call- I think that Pipeman also saw the killer, looked at him and decided he was NOT Jewish, saw Swartz who was obviously Jewish, wearing the hat and gave chase, not really knowing what was going on and then left the scene when he thought Swartz was scared enough.

Although short it is worth noting that Bury had powerfully built arms and shoulders.

[Sam Flynn]

Stride must have been tall compared to a few of her mates, as she was called Long Liz.

Actually she was only 5' 2" tall (or small, if you like), and her nickname actually stems from her surname - as in the expression "long stride". It's similar to people with the surname Miller being called "Dusty/Windy", or people named White given the nickname "Chalky".

[Sam Flynn]

I can't really imagine Bury at 5ft 3...

I don't recall that any of the witnesses who saw potential Ripper suspects noted that he was short or below average height (between 5' 6" and 5' 7" in the late 1880s), as they might have done if the man they saw was only 5' 3".

[Busy Beaver]

I've just read the interview Schwartz gave to the daily star and it says that the first man he saw was intoxicated. So the next question to ask is how intoxicated could one be to carry out a murder with or without mutilations and run/get away without staggering all over the place and standing out from the ordinary man in the street?

And an after-thought- the box of chaccous- Don't know if Liz enjoyed a wee ciggie with her drink, but perhaps her companion stank of beer and she was going to give him one to freshen his breath and then that's when he got muderous.

[John Wheat]

I've just read the interview Schwartz gave to the daily star and it says that the first man he saw was intoxicated. So the next question to ask is how intoxicated could one be to carry out a murder with or without mutilations and run/get away without staggering all over the place and standing out from the ordinary man in the street?

And an after-thought- the box of chaccous- Don't know if Liz enjoyed a wee ciggie with her drink, but perhaps her companion stank of beer and she was going to give him one to freshen his breath and then that's when he got muderous.

Bury was an alcoholic. Which would mean it unlikely inebriation would unduly trouble him during the Jack the Ripper murders.

[Wyatt Earp]

I don't recall that any of the witnesses who saw potential Ripper suspects noted that he was short or below average height (between 5' 6" and 5' 7" in the late 1880s), as they might have done if the man they saw was only 5' 3".

If Bury was about 5'3", that would align him with the height estimates provided by Elizabeth Long and Joseph Levy, who both reported that the man they saw was just a little taller than the two women they observed. In the newspaper portrait of Bury from August 1888, he's shown wearing boots with an apparently substantial but unknown heel height, which he could have been wearing during these encounters, and he would have been wearing a hat, which would have bumped his height up even further (the bump-up would not alter the comparison with Chapman and Eddowes much, as both of these victims were also wearing boots and headgear). It's not hard to see, then, how he could have measured out to be 5'5" or 5'6" when fully attired, which would also align him with the height estimates of Israel Schwartz (5'5") and Joseph Lawende (low estimate 5'7"). In the past Stewart Evans has cautioned us against taking the eyewitness height estimates too literally, based on his personal experience with police work. While we cannot prove that Bury was wearing his boots on the night of the double event, it's certainly a reasonable possibility that he was. We see, then, that Bury's height can be fitted with all four of these witness reports.