"...but because you are going to hang me you will get nothing out of me..."

[John Wheat]

To johns

An excellent post. I agree with what you are saying generally. However there do seem to be one or two in the Ripper community who seem to push ridiculous suspects for financial gain.

[John Wheat]

I still think Bury's a strong suspect. And I'm struggling to find any other strong suspects.

[johns]

I remember like it was yesterday the first time I came across Bury. It was in The Mammoth Book of Jack the Ripper by Maxim Jakubowski and Nathan Braund. I had previously read Sugden's excellent History of Jack the Ripper, the Diary of Jack the Ripper and 1 or 2 others... none of which even mentioned Bury in passing. A state of affairs that I find odd.

For me, Bury stood out as the best suspect and he still does. Obviously there is the possibility that A N Other was Jack. But at this moment in time and for the past 10 years or more since I first read that book, W H Bury, for me, was Jack the Ripper. Period.

Now, it surprised me that Bury was born in Stourbridge which is 10 miles from where I live, so I took it upon myself to do my own research into him. Primarily to find a photograph of him which was known to have existed at some point.

After much rummaging through libraries in and around the area I (with help from my then missus) found out 1 or 2 interesting snippets about Bury, but sadly no photograph is going to turn up easily. I still live in hope.

After an evening with friends one day many years ago, we got onto the subject of the Ripper and my pal's wife, who knew absolutely nothing about the case as a whole and Bury in particular (apart from the drivel that is often spouted in Hollywood movies) asked if she could borrow a book on the subject. I lent her my copy of the Mammoth, gave her no clues whatsoever, and asked her to pick a top suspect out of the candidates within in.

She read it in a few days, I popped round their house for a pleasant evening and she gave me her comments on all the suspect (could be, laughable, pathetic, who makes this nonsense up) and said that Bury was the best suspect in the book and that it could well have been him. She wasn't surprised when I told her Bury was my top suspect too.

So after deciding all those years ago that Bury was the Ripper I have engaged in what little research I have done into him on a very ad-hoc basis. If I had more time and money I would probably do more. One thing I'm not going to do is research other suspects. Other people can do that if they wish. I research Bury. End of.

If I thought for 1 second that another suspect was better than Bury I would say so.

If I found evidence that Bury could not have been the Ripper I would post it on casebook for all the world to see.

I have posted everything I've found, which isn't a lot I agree, about Bury on casebook and will continue to do so if and when I ever do more research.

Many researchers do not have a top suspect and research the case as a whole and that is fine and I fully support them in their endeavours. They turn up more useful info than the suspect driven folks like myself I would wager. Having said that, I think the Ripper community as a whole do sterling work and I support all of them whatever their field is.

Regards
John S Lockett

[John Wheat]

Firstly if DRoy doesn't have a suspect how can he have several that are better suspects than Bury?

And secondly DRoy you seem surprised that there are people who believe that Bury is a good suspect on a Bury forum.

[DRoy]

Boggles,

Whatever. I tried.

I'll check in to this thread in a year like I have over the years and see you and the Bury clan talking about the same books and same 'evidence' over and over again. I'm sure i'll see your name as the last poster to every single Bury thread as it almost is now...

Or...

... In the alternative I'd love to see you contribute outside your Bury bubble where we can talk about something of value and not just about how much you don't like what I post.

I won't get into personal comments like you have. You want to talk Ripper then join another thread and lets debate. It won't be just me and you though, when you leave this thread there are experts that haven't been in the Bury threads so please beware. You can call that smug or you can interpret me the right way...I want to learn and believe you can contribute to that.

You've been called out again. Coming or staying?

Cheers
DRoy

[Boggles]

Droy,

I hope from now on we can be a little more civil? Let's keep it about 'Jack' and leave the shenanigans out?

I have no idea what you mean, at what point was i not civil?

with all do respect you do need to check out the other suspects being discussed

Sorry Boggles, this is what I mean about reviewing other threads.

As i said before i have done and continue to do so

I've done the same as you and posted what I originally thought as very important.

Droy with all due respect I don't think i have ever met anyone quite so patronizing or smug as you

[DRoy]

Boggles,

I hope from now on we can be a little more civil? Let's keep it about 'Jack' and leave the shenanigans out?

You're right, it isn't too much to ask for my suspect but as said, I prefer to let evidence speak for itself and don't have a pet theory or suspect. I also said that I trust the contemporary suspects where evidence exists more than I trust other suspects. If you want me to name who I mean then with all do respect you do need to check out the other suspects being discussed.

You say genital mutilations is important but I fail to see why? How many Ripper victims had them? How do you know they were Ripper victims? Sorry Boggles, this is what I mean about reviewing other threads.

I do seriously look forward to your new thread. I truly hope you will provide something that will make us all take notice. Isn't that why we're all here? To learn and hopefully contribute to the field?

Boggles, I hope this post at least settles us both down so we can appreciate each others contribution. I do appreciate absolutely everything about the Ripper including newspaper reports. I know you've contributed alot to the Bury threads by posting previously unseen info and for that we all thank you. I hope you'll appreciate my position that newspaper reports aren't the gospel so while interesting they can't always be trusted. If we can ageee on that then I think we can at least have debates on the content of the reports rather than the candidate himself.

I've done the same as you and posted what I originally thought as very important. After 'discussion' and 'debate' it seems my findings weren't that great and mostly discredited by the best in the biz. Sometimes we win sometimes we lose.

Look forward to your posts and further debate Boggles

Cheers
DRoy

[Boggles]

DRoy

As I said, a childish debate

Having said several times there are better suspects out there I really do not think it was that big an ask for you drop a few names for me to check out was it? For the record i have looked very carefully at the other main suspects.

killing in a similar style of 'Jack' became a fad all over the world including the East End of London

While there was some brutal murders, Keppel and others have studied this and concluded that the type of genital mutilations on most of the ripper victims was extremely rare. This does not include MacKenzie, it does very much include Ellen Bury (as i will hope to show in a new thread coming soon)
And so it happens that there is only one person in the world that decade who exhibited similar post murder ritualistic behavior happened to live within walking distance of the murders and left shortly after they stopped.

That alone should make Bury our strongest suspect by a country mile. Everything else, his bizarre trip to Dundee, his frequent violence towards his wife, his unusual behavior when Jack the Ripper was mentioned, Berry, the chalk on the wall, and much more - all this is interesting but extra.



But I appreciate this exchange of emails and ideas, and certainly do enjoy it when intelligent people like yourself spend the time to argue about these points.

The only annoyance I have with you is despite myself and others having spent hours uploading trial notes and associated witness statements which are only a few mouse clicks away for anyone to read you continue to assert the most of the information on Bury is from third hand / spurious / unreliable sources? whats that all about?

[Bridewell]

Not to single you out, DRoy. People do this all day here. They don't have a suspect, not a one. But they can't stay away from the suspect threads.

Roy

Where is it written that they have to?

[Bridewell]

Blotchy-last credible "suspect" seen with MK

I always find the inclusion of "Blotchy" in a list of suspects confusing. Surely "Blotchy" is a description, not a suspect? Likewise, "Astrakhan Man", "Broad Shoulders", "Pipeman".

[Bridewell]

James Berry was a very interesting man - he tried to be a good, relatively humane executioner, but had several awful experiences in his career (his beheading hanging of Robert Goodale in 1884 was one of them). Eventually he got fed up and became an eloquent spokesperson against capital punishment (bravo for him, actually!). Still he was also a man with some degree of pride in his work. He had those fancy calling cards to hand out proclaiming him as public executioner. This in an age when it usually was not bragged about.

Anyone interested in knowing more about James Berry should be directed towards Stewart P Evans' excellent biography entitled, "Executioner. the Chronicles of a Victorian Hangman".

[GregBaron]

Board Jumper...

Greg,

Thank you! A person of reason! Yes Greg I know you bounce around the boards too, I apologize for including you in my banter.

Cheers
DRoy

No problem DRoy, like I said I like to have fun out here. It's a fascinating case but let's face it, none of us have any idea what the hell really happened...

Now I'm going to jump over to that interesting Liz Stride thread...


Greg

[DRoy]

Greg,

Thank you! A person of reason! Yes Greg I know you bounce around the boards too, I apologize for including you in my banter.

Cheers
DRoy

[GregBaron]

Trash talk terminated...

Greg,

You a member of the Bury Posse too? Okay...

First of all, trash ideas? Have you read my posts? Now I know why most of those serious about the case don't post in the Bury threads. You must either be a Bury follower or not. Anything less than a Bury advocate will get you in trouble. Do I have to have blind faith and that alone to be everyone's friend here or is there any evidence that will convince me? No need to answer that.

Cheers
DRoy

No, I wasn't meaning to trash you DRoy, I just got a kick out of the accusation. I'm not a Bury supporter, I really don't have a suspect either although of late I've found interest in Jacob Levy. I jump all over the boards too......

Just having some fun, please don't take offense. I agree that there's nothing sound on Bury but he's certainly a person of interest...


Greg

[DRoy]

Greg,

You a member of the Bury Posse too? Okay...

First of all, trash ideas? Have you read my posts? Now I know why most of those serious about the case don't post in the Bury threads. You must either be a Bury follower or not. Anything less than a Bury advocate will get you in trouble. Do I have to have blind faith and that alone to be everyone's friend here or is there any evidence that will convince me? No need to answer that.

Cheers
DRoy