Suspect Witnesses?

[NotBlamedForNothing]

What if Schwartz's account took place whilst Brown was in the shop, RD? At least 3-4 minutes would have been enough for it to begin & end. Just (another) thought.

Then we would need to explain why Brown's timing places them there at about 12:50, whereas the young woman referred to having been at their location for about 20 minutes prior to the alarm of murder.

We would also need to explain why Stride is now at the board school corner, or instead why Brown thought Stride looked like a young woman.

[FISHY1118]

What if Schwartz's account took place whilst Brown was in the shop, RD? At least 3-4 minutes would have been enough for it to begin & end. Just (another) thought.

It could just as easy have been over in 60 secs.

[c.d.]

Perhaps someone could explain why our non-English speaker was able to interpret the following ...

... but just as he stepped from the kerb a second man came out of the doorway of the public-house a few doors off, and shouting out some sort of warning to the man who was with the woman, rushed forward as if to attack the intruder.

Perhaps we can turn to the immortal words of Bob Dylan -- "You don't need a weatherman to know which way wind blows."

I would say there are certain experiences which everyone pretty much agrees on. For example, "it sounded like an argument", "he seemed to be really drunk", "he seemed very angry", "he seemed to be spoiling for a fight", "it looked like he was flirting with her", "it looks like it is going to rain" etc.

Even children can give evidence in court.

As for the above example you picked out, notice he said "some sort" of warning. He couldn't say what it actually was. And "as if" to attack the intruder not he attacked the intruder. Everything else in the sentence would be obvious to anyone not visually impaired which apparently Schwartz was not.

c.d.

[c.d.]

Your other claim is that this was a little street hassle. What practical difference does an understanding of English make to 'interpreting' that?

I never claimed that this was a little street hassle. Obviously I have no way of knowing with absolute certainty. My opinion is that this was just a little street hassle.

And I am not aware of Schwartz ever definitively describing what he saw as in I witnessed a murder/domestic argument/street hassle. Which is why Swanson allowed for the possibility of a second man being Stride's murderer and not the B.S. man.

c.d.

[Lewis C]

When she goes somewhere else, the 10-minute doorstep vigil must start. There is not enough remaining time for these things to occur consecutively.

The other issue is that by supposing she goes somewhere else, after standing in the gateway, Stride's gateway vigil is left unexplained. Not only that but the BS man's motivation for acting violently to her, is also left unexplained.

See my response to c.d. for the 1st paragraph, For the 2nd, those 2 things are unexplained in any case.

[Lewis C]

Everything can be explained. You just don’t like the answers because they don’t point to some kind of plot.

Hi Herlock,

I guess I understood what he meant by unexplained differently than you did. When I said that they are unexplained, I meant that we don't know what the explanation is. But when you say everything can be explained, if you just mean that a plausible explanation can be had, I agree with that.

[Lewis C]

Don't tell me you're resorting to a 'someone lied' theory? Expect to hear from Wickerman very soon.

A witness lying isn't the same thing as a potential witness keeping his mouth shut.

[Wickerman]

Or maybe, just maybe Israel Schwartz was on his way home and witnessed an assault near a social club on Berner Street. He then learned about a murder at said social club the next day so reported what he had seen to the Police, with the help of a friend who interpreted for him.

It's not that complicated.

Maybe, he did witness an assault as described, but as he did not read or speak English, he had no idea which street he was passing through.
Later that day, he heard tales of a murder in Berner St. - he assumed that was what he saw.
Yet, not one witness ever mentioned him passing through Berner St.

[Doctored Whatsit]

Maybe, he did witness an assault as described, but as he did not read or speak English, he had no idea which street he was passing through.
Later that day, he heard tales of a murder in Berner St. - he assumed that was what he saw.
Yet, not one witness ever mentioned him passing through Berner St.

I don't understand the concept that "he had no idea which street he was passing through" as he was said to have been living in Berner Street.