The broken window

[curious4]

Morning C4
Think Bowyer said there was blood on the window but it's not clear where...could just mean smudges on the glass rather than if someone had cut themself on jagged edges

Morning Packers

There was a theory that the killer had left via the window. The key had been missing "for some time" and the window broken "a few weeks". "For some time" reads to me longer than a few weeks. It would be quite a coincidence that she broke the window in a drunken rage at exactly the same time they lost the key. If the window could be lifted up (not latched), the killer could have entered/exited that way.

Best wishes
C4

[packers stem]

It would be quite a coincidence that she broke the window in a drunken rage at exactly the same time they lost the key

Wouldn't it just C4
But breaking a window deliberately in order to gain entry happens every day....

[curious4]

Hello Packers

No, the window was definitely broken in a quarrel. Besides, why break two?

C4

[curious4]

And then there is still the apparent time difference: "for some time" and "for a few weeks". Don't think the window had been broken for too long, it was getting cold, but she hadn't got round to stuffing newspaper in the broken windows.

Cheers
C4

[packers stem]

Hello Packers

No, the window was definitely broken in a quarrel. Besides, why break two?

C4

Definitely?? Why?

[Wickerman]

The police had been there for two hours with the landlord and his rent collector was questioned.

They knew it was only a matter of reaching in.

The sequence of events is not clear.
We are told that no-one entered the room until 1:30, when Arnold arrived.
We are also told that Barnet was interviewed, but we do not know when this was. Obviously, Barnet told the police of the method to gain entry through the window, but was this after they had broken in?

Abberline agree's it was easy to gain access that way, but this does not mean he knew about that before Arnold arrived and gave the order to break in. Abberline could have learned this after the interview with Barnet in the afternoon, then pushed the broken door back closed and reached through the window to test what Barnet had told him.
But this was after the door had been forced.

Like I said, if we had a good timeline all these questions might go away.

[David Orsam]

Morning David
Yes,Beck and Abberline were acting under orders... That does mean that someone above them gave that order,someone who knew there were no available bloodhounds. I'm surprised you can't see this

Hi packers stem,

Are you seriously telling me you can't conceive of a scenario whereby orders were given by Sir Charles Warren for his officers to wait for bloodhounds following the next murder, at a time when it was believed that bloodhounds would be available, but that the situation then changed (i.e. because the Metropolitan Police was not prepared to agree the required payment terms and the dog owner took his dogs home)?

For you to make out the conspiracy theory that you seem to love, you have to show that Sir Charles Warren was told that the bloodhounds had been taken out of London and would not been available for any future murder but deliberately decided not to countermand his earlier order. Then you have to explain what Sir Charles, or anyone in authority, had to gain from a two hour delay in officers accessing the next murder scene.

Mary Jane Kelly was just as dead at 1:30pm as she was at 11:30am. What possible advantage or disadvantage was there for those in charge of the Metropolitan Police - or indeed anyone (including the murderer) - from the two hour delay?

[DJA]

The sequence of events is not clear.
We are told that no-one entered the room until 1:30, when Arnold arrived.
We are also told that Barnet was interviewed, but we do not know when this was. Obviously, Barnet told the police of the method to gain entry through the window, but was this after they had broken in?

Abberline agree's it was easy to gain access that way, but this does not mean he knew about that before Arnold arrived and gave the order to break in. Abberline could have learned this after the interview with Barnet in the afternoon, then pushed the broken door back closed and reached through the window to test what Barnet had told him.
But this was after the door had been forced.

Like I said, if we had a good timeline all these questions might go away.

We do have a timeline.

It is the report of the Inquest.

A 13 year old would take less than five minutes to figure out how to get in.....reach less than 24 inches through the window,if indeed the door was even locked.

What were the police doing.....playing hopscotch!

Barnett was not there to be interviewed.

[Robert St Devil]

It was the first murder investigated midday so id imagine it could ve been crazy bureaucratic. More of the brass at work. Maybe more "channels" to answer to, need to wait for orders kindathing. The lunchtime crowd gathering. They werent ripperologists so they dont know squat about canonical five. All they know is that they got their butts handed to them for a fourth straight month and nobody knows nuthin'... again. The dogs could ve been a stalling technique but it gave me the impression of being a desperate, showy demonstration.

After looking at Bob Hintons pix, you would have thought that Mary Jane would have left it "on the latch" so she could just push the door open whenever she came home.

Surprised not to see a "homework" comment earlier DIA. Ha. Ha.

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

Memo from Sir Charles Warren to Godfrey Lushington, Permanent Under-Secretary, Home Office—

“Mutilated dead body of woman reported to be found this morning inside room of house in Dorset Street, Spitalfields. Information just received (12.30) 9.11.88.”

Warren then wrote to Charles Stuart-Wortley, Under Secretary of State, Home Office, repeating the scant information sent to Lushington and further advising him—

“The matter has been placed in the hands of Mr. Anderson, Assistant Commissioner.”

No mention of Bloodhounds at 12.30 pm, an hour after Inspector Abberline arrived in Millers Court.

Regards,

Simon

[David Orsam]

No mention of Bloodhounds at 12.30 pm, an hour after Inspector Abberline arrived in Millers Court.

I'm wondering why you appear to think Sir Charles Warren should have been talking about dogs to the Home Office when he was simply informing them of the murder and who was in charge of the investigation.

[DJA]

I'm wondering why you appear to think Sir Charles Warren should have been talking about dogs to the Home Office when he was simply informing them of the murder and who was in charge of the investigation.

Nice to see Anderson back from France.

Suppose the day after his resignation Warren needed to tell Stuart-Wartley and Lushington who was now in charge.

Warren prolly knew there had been no Bloodhound for 10 days.

Meanwhile,back at the ranch.......

[Simon Wood]

Hi David,

I am thinking no such thing.

I merely offered a couple of documented facts and made an observation.

Here's another.

There was direct telegraph communication between Commercial Street police station and Scotland Yard, yet over an hour passed before Warren was advised of the murder.

Regards,

Simon

[DJA]

Was simply agreeing with you.

Warren was prolly back to clear out his desk

Edit. Honestly sorry. Thought you were addressing me.

[Simon Wood]

Hi DJA,

You are DJA, David is David Awesome.

Hi All,

Abberline told the inquest he had received an intimation from Inspector Beck that the bloodhounds were on the way.

Landlord John McCarthy told Central News—“The Inspector [Abberline] waited a little while, and then sent a telegram to Sir Charles Warren to bring the bloodhounds, so as to trace the murderer, if possible.”

Regards,

Simon