The broken window

[packers stem]

From the times on the 10th November

Mr Arnold,having satisfied himself that the woman was dead,ordered one of the windows be entirely removed.

Later on after discussing the scene the article continues

....While this examination was being made a photographer,who,in the mean time, had been sent for,arrived and took photographs of the body,the organs,the room and it's contents....

So, if the window had been removed before the photographer was sent for, who took the photo of the broken window or was the photo that we know not a 'crime scene' photo and one taken at a later date and there just happened to be one broken window at the time it was taken

[DJA]

That photograph was shot "the day of the murder".

Prolly b4 one of the windows was taken out,if that happened.

Although McCarthy knew about reaching in through the window,a big issue was made of breaking the door in.

[Jon Guy]

Hi Packers Stem

The photographer took the photo of the body before the post-mortem examination in the afternoon. So, the photo of the outside of the room was either taken first, or after, whilst the doctors were inside putting the pieces back together.

The window was boarded up and the door padlocked on Friday evening.

Source: Belfast News Letter Sat 10th 1888

[Rosella]

Packers, I don't know if you have already read it but Simon Wood wrote a very interesting dissertion here on Casebook examining what the photographer must have done, and the question of the windows maybe being removed. It's called 'The Enigmas of Millers Court'.

[packers stem]

Packers, I don't know if you have already read it but Simon Wood wrote a very interesting dissertion here on Casebook examining what the photographer must have done, and the question of the windows maybe being removed. It's called 'The Enigmas of Millers Court'.

Thanks Rosella,I'll take a look.
But to everyone saying the photographer took the photo first...the window had already been removed and Phillips was in the room examining the body according to the report,before a photographer was even summoned. Questions,questions

[packers stem]

Mmmmmmmmm can't find it.Takes me to the curse of mitre square. Never mind

[packers stem]

That photograph was shot "the day of the murder".

Prolly b4 one of the windows was taken out,if that happened.

Although McCarthy knew about reaching in through the window,a big issue was made of breaking the door in.

Hi DJA
Ever crossed your mind as to why there's no one else in the yard.No police outside the door and why there's no light source through the passageway
Not to mention what appears to be the edge of a 'drawn' curtain on the left hand side of the left window

[DJA]

Yes,I did.

[Jon Guy]

Thanks Rosella,I'll take a look.
But to everyone saying the photographer took the photo first...the window had already been removed and Phillips was in the room examining the body according to the report,before a photographer was even summoned. Questions,questions

The report is wrong, the windows were boarded up, not removed.

Would they have some sort of carpenter or handyman working on removing the window whilst the body was still lying on the bed, and obviously, the photographer was on the scene before the doctors started messing around with the body.

[packers stem]

The report is wrong, the windows were boarded up, not removed.

Would they have some sort of carpenter or handyman working on removing the window whilst the body was still lying on the bed and obviously the photographer was on the scene before the doctors started messing around with the body.

Could be that Arnold saw it as the easiest way of entry due to the door mystery. The times was remarkably accurate regarding the mutilations so there's a good chance they were right about this.
What if the window was removed to get someone in to open the door but it still couldn't be opened.Would make a lot of sense

[Jon Guy]

Could be that Arnold saw it as the easiest way of entry due to the door mystery. The times was remarkably accurate regarding the mutilations so there's a good chance they were right about this.
What if the window was removed to get someone in to open the door but it still couldn't be opened.Would make a lot of sense

Why remove the window when they could just force the door open at the lock with a pick axe (which they did)?

Here`s the relevant bit from Simon Wood`s dissertation as recommended by Rosella:

The brickwork surrounding both window frames is intact, showing no evidence of either window being removed, though their removal would have resulted in fairly extensive damage. Note the broken panes in the smaller window and open curtain in the larger. Perhaps this photograph was taken at some time in the morning, before a window was removed? No. The angled shadow on the brickwork by the far side of door, cast by the brickwork above the alley connecting 26 and 27 Dorset Street, indicates that the sun was in the west when the photograph was taken. Consequently, the photograph was taken in the late afternoon of 9 November, after Mary Jane Kelly's body had been taken away in a coffin, but before 'the windows were boarded up and the door padlocked'

[DJA]

Philips arrived at 11.15am and looked through the window.

He gained entry after Arnold instructed McCarthy to break open the door at 1.30 pm.

[Rosella]

http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/rip-swood.html

Packers, this is the one.

[packers stem]

Why remove the window when they could just force the door open at the lock with a pick axe (which they did)?

Here`s the relevant bit from Simon Wood`s dissertation as recommended by Rosella:

The brickwork surrounding both window frames is intact, showing no evidence of either window being removed, though their removal would have resulted in fairly extensive damage. Note the broken panes in the smaller window and open curtain in the larger. Perhaps this photograph was taken at some time in the morning, before a window was removed? No. The angled shadow on the brickwork by the far side of door, cast by the brickwork above the alley connecting 26 and 27 Dorset Street, indicates that the sun was in the west when the photograph was taken. Consequently, the photograph was taken in the late afternoon of 9 November, after Mary Jane Kelly's body had been taken away in a coffin, but before 'the windows were boarded up and the door padlocked'

Thanks Jon
That's even more odd now because the sun would have to be very high in the sky to cast that shadow...surprisingly odd for November,I'd be surprised if the sun could be seen from the door in November due to how low it would be in the sky and the dimensions of the court so I'm stumped now

[packers stem]

http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/rip-swood.html

Packers, this is the one.

Thank you for the link Rosella