How well did Jack know the East End?

[MrBarnett]

Brought over from Shawlgatezzzzzzzzz


Rocky,

So to add to his encyclopaedic knowledge of police beats and work routes we must add an intimate knowledge of the bladder and bowel movements of 29 Hanbury Street?

I take it back, he deserves his top hat and silk lined cloak .

MrB

[RockySullivan]

Brought over from Shawlgatezzzzzzzzz


Rocky,

So to add to his encyclopaedic knowledge of police beats and work routes we must add an intimate knowledge of the bladder and bowel movements of 29 Hanbury Street?

I take it back, he deserves his top hat and silk lined cloak .

MrB

...it's not impossible that the ripper did have an intimate knowledge of hanbury street. He could have watched the site for a week and studied the patterns of the residents. He could also have worked right there or had a relative who lived at the site. I think it's likely the ripper lives near one of the murders (Dorset street?) and works at another. I think the ripper killed within his immediate comfort zone. He knew the sites so well he did know exactly who would be passing thru when. The skill and speed in which he worked suggests he was very comfortable. Mr b if you had to pick one site for the ripper to live at and one for him to work at what would your choices be?

[MrBarnett]

...it's not impossible that the ripper did have an intimate knowledge of hanbury street. He could have watched the site for a week and studied the patterns of the residents. He could also have worked right there or had a relative who lived at the site. I think it's likely the ripper lives near one of the murders (Dorset street?) and works at another. I think the ripper killed within his immediate comfort zone. He knew the sites so well he did know exactly who would be passing thru when. The skill and speed in which he worked suggests he was very comfortable. Mr b if you had to pick one site for the ripper to live at and one for him to work at what would your choices be?

Hi Rocky,

You've put me on the spot. The answer is I have no idea. But if I were to guess I would firstly say that Doveton Street and Broad Street goods yard make perfect sense to me, if we exclude Stride. If you are talking C5, then somewhere to the East of Goulston Street and south of Spitalfields. Stick a pin in the map and Whitechapel Road/High Street would do for both home and work.

MrB

[SirJohnFalstaff]

Sir John ,

The guy is getting cleverer by the minute.

MrB

Au contraire,

since he nearly got caught.

I'm saying the experience we enjoy walking through a city at night is nothing compared to an era when there was no electricity in most homes and very few lamp posts.
If you hear a guy at 120 feet before you see him, that's pretty dark.

Police officer and their lantern can be spotted before they spot you.

You gotta to add that kind of cover in Jack's luck.
this is what I'm saying.
Jack might have some level of streetsmart, but he was no genius.

[Rosella]

We know nothing about the Ripper's family background. The family may have moved two or three times around Whitechapel and Spitalfields. People were pretty mobile in those days and did midnight flits if they couldn't afford the rent. He might not have been a good little Jack when he was an older kid and could have explored the district with his mates at times instead of going to school.

I agree darkness helped him, he had great luck, also that he probably gave his victims the choice of location to die.

[MrBarnett]

We know nothing about the Ripper's family background. The family may have moved two or three times around Whitechapel and Spitalfields. People were pretty mobile in those days and did midnight flits if they couldn't afford the rent. He might not have been a good little Jack when he was an older kid and could have explored the district with his mates at times instead of going to school.

I agree darkness helped him, he had great luck, also that he probably gave his victims the choice of location to die.

Hi Rosella,

I don't think people were as mobile as you suggest. Families who lived in, say, St George in the East, might move home several times, but they tended to stick to the same general area.

You talk about him exploring 'the district' as a boy. I agree, though his boyhood would probably have ended in his early teens. And his 'district' would not have been the whole of the East End and the fringes of the City.



MrB

[Hakeswill]

I wonder if diet could play a small role here. lack of vitamin A can result in the condition night blindness, basically having difficulty seeing in poor light. I'm not suggesting a killer would necessarily have had to have access to good food, but a poor diet could have affected the ability to see well in dark. I don't think the kind of nutrition-poor fare served in workhouses would have done much for your night vision for example.

[Patrick S]

I wonder if diet could play a small role here. lack of vitamin A can result in the condition night blindness, basically having difficulty seeing in poor light. I'm not suggesting a killer would necessarily have had to have access to good food, but a poor diet could have affected the ability to see well in dark. I don't think the kind of nutrition-poor fare served in workhouses would have done much for your night vision for example.

Well. That's original. I'll give you that.

So, what are you saying? That someone living/eating in a workhouse was likely not the Ripper? DAMN! I was sure Robert Mann was the guy!

[Hakeswill]

Just a thought, I don't think you could draw much from it. There's a passage in People of the Abyss with two guys picking up grape-stalks from the street to chew. I suppose for the poor diet may have been very poor, so extremely hypothetically there may have been problems seeing in low light conditions. I wonder if it would be possible to get a genuine value on intensity of lamps, assuming they were clean and so on.

[MrBarnett]

Well. That's original. I'll give you that.

So, what are you saying? That someone living/eating in a workhouse was likely not the Ripper? DAMN! I was sure Robert Mann was the guy!

Lets Kos off the hook.

[Hakeswill]

At least he was getting plenty of zinc in his diet, by all accounts

[MrBarnett]

Lets Kos off the hook.

I chose the wrong quote, sorry. I should have picked a post referring to Kos's hobby.

[Varqm]

Between a guy who may have had used prostitutes in 29 Hanbury,maybe a couple of times,and walked about the area and a local who lived in Spitalfields, what would have been the difference in regards to Chapman's murder? I say none.
But after Chapman's murder ,with the vigilantes, undercover cops,concerned citizens he still insisted on killing on that area. There were lots of places with prostitutes. If single and unemployed/employed he could have moved. If married and unemployed he could have moved.But if married and working and/or other family ties were in that area I guess he stayed.

[MrBarnett]

Between a guy who may have had used prostitutes in 29 Hanbury,maybe a couple of times,and walked about the area and a local who lived in Spitalfields, what would have been the difference in regards to Chapman's murder? I say none.
But after Chapman's murder ,with the vigilantes, undercover cops,concerned citizens he still insisted on killing on that area. There were lots of places with prostitutes. If single and unemployed/employed he could have moved. If married and unemployed he could have moved.But if married and working and/or other family ties were in that area I guess he stayed.

Hi Varqm,

Hanbury Street is the clincher for me. The yard itself is a potential trap. And you have to exit the kill zone blind into a major route leading directly to an early morning market.

How can this be the informed choice of an all-knowing local expert?

If this was indeed Jack's choice, did he coax Annie there from some distance away, or did he lurk around his chosen 'perfect' location waiting for a suitable victim to pass by?

MrB

[Varqm]

Hi MrBarnett,

First he must have visited this street a lot living near the area during the early hours. He most likely than not have visited that house before.
I think 29 Hanbury was a known location to do sex. He sees her in that street, they could have gone there or Annie could have been waiting near that building.
He knew this location and had more knowledge/sense/acumen of what he could get away with. Do people converse in their rooms or are awake at that hour.,outside the building how many people usually are up and about especially the market opens at 5 A.M., would they wake up if this amount of noise is made.etc..Maybe he did the sex act before.I guess he had to have honed this sense/skill one way or another.
So in the end his sense of risk/his ability was different. I would also not be surprised if he would have been partly suicidal (like if he had a disease - he would die anyway) or partly mentally ill to take those risks.
However he looked at it he was right,with little luck or not.
Coupled with my earlier post much more likely a local.
On another topic,carrying an apron to GS, writing the graffito,no problem.

The other question is why the rush when Whitechapel was agitated because of his murders.